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bucketlistpilot

Swooping the forest

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Nice swoop through the trees



All that proves is you guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Keep it up. There's a little thing called "rotors" that come off of trees that will collapse your canopy. :o
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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Looks impressive :-) yes!!!

But if this is you in the video and looking at your profile and experience, you are not far off causing a serious injury to yourself and/or someone else.
It just looked so close to a canopy collision, it's not funny. I wouldn't be surprised if the DZSO didn't ground you :-)

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Looks impressive :-) yes!!!

But if this is you in the video and looking at your profile and experience, you are not far off causing a serious injury to yourself and/or someone else.
It just looked so close to a canopy collision, it's not funny. I wouldn't be surprised if the DZSO didn't ground you :-)



Definitely not me B| I've been flying the same 210 since jump 21.

These guys have 20,000 and 10,000 jumps each. Me - I've got a family to support. I was videoing my son's landing, the 17yo coming in on the left.
Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
[email protected]

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rotos in no wind?



I certainly made the observation it was a "no wind day" when I watched the U-Tube video. I'm not blind. By looking t your profile, I just wanted to make sure YOU were aware they even existed. Like I said "Keep it up" Swoop trains for all I care, look cool, that's the main thing. I think you should swoop a Plane!! On a no wind day though. Whole point being, don't push your luck. "It's all about living" (Credit:) D.V. (Jump Master)
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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I was videoing my son's landing, the 17yo coming in on the left.



Funny you should mention that, he was one of my big concerns. While the two guys swooping may or may not have pre-planned the 'team swoop' through the woods, it put them at 90 degrees to the direction of landing, and cutting right across the LZ.

I'm willing to bet that your son was not part of the plan, nor has the skills to fly accurately enough to even be considered as part of the plan. Just to be clear, I feel that he did have the right of way, and their actions were not what I would want to see out of 'highly experienced' jumpers when it comes to swooping and traffic.

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Well, Dave you know 302 jumps and swooping through the trees gives anyone "Carte Blanche" Let's be honest, we've dealt with people like this all our life, I don't think they'll ever go away, let alone be smart enough to consider other's welfare. Shame. It wouldn't do for me to be an S&TA.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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Well, Dave you know 302 jumps and swooping through the trees gives anyone "Carte Blanche" Let's be honest, we've dealt with people like this all our life, I don't think they'll ever go away, let alone be smart enough to consider other's welfare. Shame. It wouldn't do for me to be an S&TA.


can you not read? or do you choose not to before posting?

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rotos in no wind?



I certainly made the observation it was a "no wind day" when I watched the U-Tube video. I'm not blind. By looking t your profile, I just wanted to make sure YOU were aware they even existed. Like I said "Keep it up" Swoop trains for all I care, look cool, that's the main thing. I think you should swoop a Plane!! On a no wind day though. Whole point being, don't push your luck. "It's all about living" (Credit:) D.V. (Jump Master)


u said "All that proves is you guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer." citing rotors (which were not there)

what makes u think they'll be doing this when there are rotors? myabe they're more heads up jumpers than u, and with more experience? how can u just jump to conclusion "you guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer."?!!!! :S

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what makes u think they'll be doing this when there are rotors? myabe they're more heads up jumpers than u, and with more experience?



Seriously, seriously doubt it. I've outlived a lot of folks. And they ALL said the same things your saying, prior to going in under perfectly good canopies. Don't get me wrong, I've done some very ignorant things in my time, but just like some others, luck and the good Lord were looking out for me.

Lets face it, flying over a forest, or a few trees isn't very smart....Period. (And you should know it.) Malfunction, it's a word...look it up.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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rwieder



Lets face it, flying over a forest, or a few trees isn't very smart....Period. (And you should know it.) Malfunction, it's a word...look it up.



I think that you're reaching with that statement. Almost every jump I make includes flying over swamp, freeway, lakes or trees. Not down low like in the video, but I also have chosen to swoop through sets of trees now and then. Risk management, not total avoidance of anything fun... what's next - stop skydiving cause sometimes people get hurt?
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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I think that you're reaching with that statement.



Really?

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"I also have chosen to swoop through sets of trees now and then." "Risk management," (CHA?) not total avoidance of anything fun... what's next - stop skydiving cause sometimes people get hurt?



I'm assuming you have great health insurance? Life
insurance? Can you afford a $6,000.00 Helicopter ride to the trauma unit? In that film clip, you guys were landing in a 90° angle to the student under canopy coming in on final. You guys put his life in danger. And for what? Some people just figure they're beyond reproach. What if you would have had a malfunction while "Swooping through rows of trees?" You know, it doesn't have to be a no wind day to get in a jam. Heat rises and causes sudden and unexpected lift. But....You already knew that right? I never suggested stopping SkyDiving to keep from getting hurt, I merely watched the really cute video posted and made the decision it wasn't a very smart thing to do. I, for one didn't retain any knowledge from watching it. If I would have been there, I would have pulled both of you guys reserves. Good Luck to you sir, I fear you're going to need it b/c you have Mad Skillz!
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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Are you one of these pessimistic people in life that warns everyone about everything just so when something does go wrong you can say 'told you so'?

What if... what if... what if...

How the heck did you ever get into skydiving? You must be a nervous wreck.

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I wanna, but I ain't gonna. Is that all you got?

By the way, as an after thought I don't recall having engadged either of you gentlemen in any conversation(s) So lash out at someone else with your insignificant rhetoric and your juvinile pent up anger & hostility. I don't to hear it anymore. Veiled threats will get you no where. See you guys later, much later like in never.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

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The problem wasn't the trees, it was the approaching student. Nothing happened but what if that student had freaked out and made a last second turn to avoid them?

I've been a high performance canopy pilot for awhile, but I know when to bail, and this would have been one of those times.

We are not entitled to swoop on every jump.

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rwieder

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I think that you're reaching with that statement.



Really?

***"I also have chosen to swoop through sets of trees now and then." "Risk management," (CHA?) not total avoidance of anything fun... what's next - stop skydiving cause sometimes people get hurt?



I'm assuming you have great health insurance? Life
insurance? Can you afford a $6,000.00 Helicopter ride to the trauma unit? In that film clip, you guys were landing in a 90° angle to the student under canopy coming in on final. You guys put his life in danger. And for what? Some people just figure they're beyond reproach. What if you would have had a malfunction while "Swooping through rows of trees?" You know, it doesn't have to be a no wind day to get in a jam. Heat rises and causes sudden and unexpected lift. But....You already knew that right? I never suggested stopping SkyDiving to keep from getting hurt, I merely watched the really cute video posted and made the decision it wasn't a very smart thing to do. I, for one didn't retain any knowledge from watching it. If I would have been there, I would have pulled both of you guys reserves. Good Luck to you sir, I fear you're going to need it b/c you have Mad Skillz!

I do my best to avoid getting in arguments about this kind of thing over the internet. I have enough stress in my own life, I don't need this too. However, it's just too frustrating for me to ignore. Here are a couple of important points for you to consider before you lash out at me again.

1. If you're going act as you have, try not to make assumptions. I wasn't in said video, haven't ever been to that dropzone and have no idea who the actual people are. My knowledge of the events that occurred is limited to what I saw in the video.

2. You're so full of anger at what exactly? I can't imagine that you would act this way around actual people that you know, in person - if so, well I am just glad that I do not know you personally.

3. Constructive conversation requires not jumping to wild conclusions.

I am hesitant to actually address the points that you made, but if I am going to post at all, I might as well do so.

- I do have great health insurance, though I don't really think it's any of your business. You don't know anything about my financial situation, family life, etc - my choosing to have or not have life insurance is not your concern either.

- From watching the video alone, while I don't think I personally would have chosen the line that they did, giving the approaching student (do we even know that it's a student?? - it was clarified that he isn't after I started writing this post.).

Furthermore, do we know if he had been expecting them to take that line? Is this something that is done very regularly and would otherwise not incite panic as was suggested? Just from watching the video if they HAD continued on in a straight line they wouldn't have actually been in an area that would have affected the students landing. How it all played out in the moment is something that neither you or I know.

Again, that being said - I personally, with my limited outside knowledge wouldn't have chosen to make that landing given that the other jumper was on final.

- I don't know what you mean by "Some people just figure they're beyond reproach."

- Malfunction while "Swooping through rows of trees?": Are you talking about some kind of equipment failure or are you using the word malfunction to describe some other kind of incident. I would imagine (and I am making an assumption here, cause it is not shown in the video) that deployment occurred somewhere out of the trees area at a greater altitude (above the trees or not) and they flew over to take that line. In the case of that kind of malfunction I would have landed my reserve normally and hiked out and recovered my gear.

If you mean some kind of incident involving impacting the trees, well - that's the risk that you choose to take to make that kind of approach. That choice is up to me, like the choice to skydive at all is up to every individual. You didn't directly suggest that the best answer was "stopping SkyDiving to keep from getting hurt" but that's the correlation. We each all as individuals choose the level of risk that we are willing to accept.

-As for your point about pulling reserve handles you're welcome to read my comments in this thread. As well as the other associated dropzone.com bickery including the following quote:

millertime24

To that end I will NO LONGER post anything safety related that I learn on this site (and I would discourage others from doing the same due to the jackassery). I will continue to discuss safety related things that may be brought to my attention VIA PM's, but this entire forum can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sure I would jump with most (if not all) of you guys who posted here and even buy you a beer after the last wheels up. It's discouraging that we can't have a discussion online as we would in real life



Which is holds a strong correlation to what Ian just posted:
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Folks,

This forum is getting more and more negative, and 'bash the poster' oriented. Normally I try and let the community police itself but at the moment I feel there is more negativity than constructive advice being dolled out. Yes, repeating yourself over and over again on topics long discussed can be tiresome but don't let it sour you.

Remember, we're here to help each other and you sure as hell get more flies with honey than vinegar

Thanks,
Ian



As for mad Sk1llz, I will suggest that you don't know anything about me. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. What I can tell you is that over the last almost 10 years and 3000+ jumps I have made my share of mistakes, had accidents and learned from them. Generally speaking I am a pretty reasonable person and have had my share of problems solely because I do advocate safety - to a degree.

Skydiving and risk like many other things in life are best taken in moderation.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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