Safer on lighter wing loading?...Velocity or Stiletto?

[devin2477 0]

so heres a hypothetical situation guys. I hear people talking around the drop zone about how they think of a velocity as being a more "stable" and "rigid" wing therefore making it "safer". so say take someone with 800-900 jumps that is a pretty good pilot but may or may not be ready for a velocity yet and he/she is jumping say a stiletto/crossfire, etc. right now. moderately loaded. their arguments are that they think the velo is safer then the other bc of the rigidness and stableness of the wing so they say why not just go ahead and get on a velo even if you just fly it conservatively. what are you guys thoughts on this?

[virgin-burner 1]

*grabs popcorn*

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Zlew 0]

haha... I wrote a reply and ended up not posting it.

I jump a lighter loaded velo (under 2.0) and usually only do 90's or so these days.... so my perspective is a little different than most who jump velos and post in here. Couldn't figure out how to articulate my thoughts and not get totally torched by everyone on here :)

[yoink 321]

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so heres a hypothetical situation guys [] so say take someone with 800-900 jumps that is a pretty good pilot but may not be ready for a velocity yet

If they're not ready for a velocity yet, then they shouldn't get a velocity... It's not rocket science.


If they're jumping in conditions that makes it UNSAFE to fly a non-crossbraced wing, then the answer is that they should jump another day, not switch to a wing they're not ready for. Expecting a crossbrace to save you from those types of conditions is idiocy, to say nothing of using it as an excuse to make the step up. All of this is assuming that they're jumping at a loading where the crossbraces would make any difference at all anyway...


I think someone's yanking your chain for a laugh.

[craigbey 0]

Do these same people at your DZ use the 45 degree rule?

[devin2477 0]

not sure what you mean by the 45 degree rule.is that a joke?

[Freeflaw 0]

yes it is a joke...the 45 degree rule relates to separation on exit. In strong winds this rule is worth nothing. Groups will still stack vertically albeit the visual separation on exit.

[AggieDave 6]

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the 45 degree rule relates to separation on exit. In strong winds this rule is worth nothing

In light winds the rule is worth nothing.

Actually, in all instances the rule is worth nothing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TaylorC 0]

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the 45 degree rule relates to separation on exit. In strong winds this rule is worth nothing

In light winds the rule is worth nothing.

Actually, in all instances the rule is worth nothing.

The rule is worth making fun of

[devin2477 0]

Come on people! I thought there would be more input than this?

[Fast 0]

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Come on people! I thought there would be more input than this?

I wouldn't ever consider a "velocity" a safe/safer (or ever use that word in conjunction with a velocity) wing to fly. If you're a "conservative" or "casual" jumper you have no business jumping one, or a katana/crossfire class canopy either for that matter.

The stiletto I would put between the katana class and the saber class - fun if you like to turn really fast otherwise pointless as far as a parachute to fly given the vast number of amazing canopies in the sabre class that fly very well.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[AggieDave 6]

A Stiletto is a high performance wing that is amazingly fun to fly and can do many things.

A Velocity is a no-shit swoop monster that was designed to be loaded and flown at edge of what is possible.

That's like saying that a top-fuel drag car is safer than a Porsche because it has a roll cage.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[aaroncosbey 0]

I dont get people who fly velocitys, justifying their canopy and only doing 90's or straight in's.
Most are better off on an xfires and stilettos, toggle whipping and thinking its cool..

How about a X-braced prerequisite qualifying jump or questionnaire?

Do you intend to:

Minimum WL of 2.5

Minimum - 450° turn

Minimum turn height - 1300ft

If you can get the power down to the ground, hit both gates and stand it up, then that's how you know you are worthy

[Zlew 0]

:) that's kinda funny.

Should add- proof of hairy chest, ability to do a manly grunt on command, fear of bro-hugs, and general "macho" status to be "worthy" of jumping an x-brace.

[rwieder 0]

Are you getting every ounce of performance out of your current canopy? If the answer is absolutely not, you don't have any business getting a Velocity & loading it up. What's the hurry anyway?

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[DocPop 1]

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Are you getting every ounce of performance out of your current canopy? If the answer is absolutely not, you don't have any business getting a Velocity & loading it up. What's the hurry anyway?

How are you defining getting "every ounce of performance"? Does that mean you can go as far and as fast as Nick, Curt, Jay etc would on that wing? I am sure almost nobody that gets an x-brace gets EVERY OUNCE of performance out of their previous wing.

What counts is are they familiar enough with the previous wing in all flight modes including flying on the edge of a stall. It's quite possible for jumpers to be safe on a wing they can't fly like a world champion.

I agree that there is a minimum ability level (See the downisizing checklist) to be attained before going smaller/elliptical/x-braced is advisable but that is a far cry from getting every ounce of possible performance out of it.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Zlew 0]

I agree. Obviously you need a high level of skill, training/coaching, proficiency and respect for the wing to consider flying xbraced. However, the idea that you aren't worthy or are wasting your time unless you intend to load it off the wing loading chart, do 450+ turns, or have squeezed every ounce out of a non cross braced wing is a bit grandiose.

[krisco 0]

I almost never post on these forms because of the usual Sh$% show in which I'd prefer being a part of the audience.

My Opinion only... But I think it's a nice realistic opinion.

1) Crossbraced Canopies feel much more rigid. That does not mean "safer". In what respect do you mean by that?
2) If you're Comparing a Stiletto to a Velocity you're doing it wrong! The canopy you should have mastered before getting on a Velo is a Katana loaded no less than 1.8:1. The crossfire2 seems to recover too quick to me anyway.
3)Again, My opinion only! If you're not Very proficient/Swooping, loaded around 2:1 minimum and/or not very proficient under a highly loaded canopy then a Crossbraced canopy is not for you.
4) If you're planning on Loading a canopy over 2:1 then a crossbraced canopy will perform better, have much more range in slow and fast flight and will exhibit the qualities advertised and expected. I've seen one guy in particular loading a Katana over 2:1 and he would fall out of the sky, the recovery arc seemed to be more like a straight line to the ground. At his level he was happy to get back on the Velo.

So why Jump a Velo if you're not loading it or swooping the F#$% out of it?
Consider getting a katana or crossfire2 and work you're way up to a 1.8/2:1 loading before considering getting a race car to drive the family to church...

Skydivers are nothing but a bunch of Narcissistic A$$holes!!
Front risers were made for pulling! Pal
MuFF#5640
D.S. # 2012

[FB1609 0]

aaroncosbey

I dont get people who fly velocitys, justifying their canopy and only doing 90's or straight in's.
Most are better off on an xfires and stilettos, toggle whipping and thinking its cool..

How about a X-braced prerequisite qualifying jump or questionnaire?

Do you intend to:

Minimum WL of 2.5

Minimum - 450° turn

Minimum turn height - 1300ft

If you can get the power down to the ground, hit both gates and stand it up, then that's how you know you are worthy

Yeah, this. Swoop that thing like it's your last.