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marcwgarber

Canopy Recommendations???

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I made this post a couple of weeks ago in the "gear & rigging" forum but it has been suggested that I should have posted it here instead. So here it is:


I've been out of the sport for 11 years but got recurrent today. Wondering what main canopies I should consider? Here's some background:

- 1300+ jumps, and was jumping a Viper 105 when I quit (very similar to the Stiletto 107). I have close to 1000 jumps on ellipticals wing-loaded at 1.5 to 1.8.

- I'm 42. Not as young as I once was, but still in decent shape.

- I'm not coming back full-time at this particular point in my life. If I were, then I would work my way into a sub-100 sq/ft cross-braced canopy and stay current with it. I'll probably make less than 100 jumps per year.

- My typical approach will probably be a 90-ish degree front-riser turn to landing. I like a good turf surf but I won't be getting too crazy with it since I probably won't be jumping enough to fly at the level I used to.

So, with that background in mind, I'm thinking something in the 120-135 range would work (my exit weight now is about 195). But what???

I know I don't want a Sabre (although maybe a Sabre 2). Most of my jumps are on Stilettos or the very similar Viper, but that is now 20 year old technology, so I'm sure that there are some better options - I just don't know what they are.

Sooooo, recommendations? And please tell me WHY you are making the recommendation.

Thanks!

Marc
A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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I know I don't want a Sabre (although maybe a Sabre 2).



The Sabre and Sabre2 are similar in these ways:

1. They're made by PD
2. They're 9-cells
3. They both have "sabre" in their name.

That's where the similarity ends. So don't discount a Sabre2 until you can demo one.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I read your thread in the gear and rigging forum, and based on your replies, the one thing you didn't learn is what it takes to be an 'expert' skydiver.

There's no way that you're good enough to shit all over the advice you were given based on 1300 jumps you made over a decade ago. If you had a lick of sense, you would realize that you've been out of jumping longer that you were in jumping, and that you might want to dial back your attitude a notch.

Based on that, I'm not going to even attempt to advise you about canopy selection, because I'm sure you already 'know' whatever it is that I would have to share.

I'll tell you this - one thing that hasn't changed is that open canopy incidents are still maiming/killing jumpers faster than any other area of skydiving. Something that has changed - you. You're older, slower, waay out of currency, and it seems a father to 2 kids. Stuff to think about.

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Demo.

In 11 years some of the wings are still very similar, and a few are different from what was available at that time.

If you can get you hands on a few different sizes/models you will be able to pretty quickly figure out what you like...and what you are ready for.

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My re-currency jump was on a Sabre2 170. MUCH BETTER than the original Sabre 170. It was too big, but overall I liked it quite a lot and would definitely add a Sabre2 135 to my list of potential canopies, thanks.

Marc



The Sabre and Sabre2 are similar in these ways:

1. They're made by PD
2. They're 9-cells
3. They both have "sabre" in their name.

That's where the similarity ends. So don't discount a Sabre2 until you can demo one.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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I ask for advice on canopies that are MORE CONSERVATIVE than what I used to jump, and explain that I want to fly MORE CONSERVATIVELY than I used to, and I get yet another patronizing response. Really?

I know damn full well that I am not "current," which is why I'm asking for advice on MORE CONSERVATIVE canopies. I was AFF-I/Tandem-JM/Rigger/Video. I know the freakin' risks. I'm asking about options that are MORE CONSERVATIVE than what I used to jump.

To reiterate: I'm not stupid. I am asking about canopy options that are MORE CONSERVATIVE than what I used to fly, and I am expressing a desire to fly the canopies in a MORE CONSERVATIVE manner than I used to. And yet I am being lectured....

Somebody please make the moron parade go away. Please! Good grief.

Freaking absurdity.

Marc


Quote


I read your thread in the gear and rigging forum, and based on your replies, the one thing you didn't learn is what it takes to be an 'expert' skydiver.

There's no way that you're good enough to shit all over the advice you were given based on 1300 jumps you made over a decade ago. If you had a lick of sense, you would realize that you've been out of jumping longer that you were in jumping, and that you might want to dial back your attitude a notch.

Based on that, I'm not going to even attempt to advise you about canopy selection, because I'm sure you already 'know' whatever it is that I would have to share.

I'll tell you this - one thing that hasn't changed is that open canopy incidents are still maiming/killing jumpers faster than any other area of skydiving. Something that has changed - you. You're older, slower, waay out of currency, and it seems a father to 2 kids. Stuff to think about.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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Dude. You read my other thread. Fantastic.

Do me a favor and point to ANYTHING that I said that you take issue with.

Obviously you need to keep things in context, but really, what have I said that bothers you? Show me.

I'll be REALLY interested to see where I've said anything unreasonable.

Marc



Quote


I read your thread in the gear and rigging forum, and based on your replies, the one thing you didn't learn is what it takes to be an 'expert' skydiver.

There's no way that you're good enough to shit all over the advice you were given based on 1300 jumps you made over a decade ago. If you had a lick of sense, you would realize that you've been out of jumping longer that you were in jumping, and that you might want to dial back your attitude a notch.

Based on that, I'm not going to even attempt to advise you about canopy selection, because I'm sure you already 'know' whatever it is that I would have to share.

I'll tell you this - one thing that hasn't changed is that open canopy incidents are still maiming/killing jumpers faster than any other area of skydiving. Something that has changed - you. You're older, slower, waay out of currency, and it seems a father to 2 kids. Stuff to think about.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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Dude. You read my other thread. Fantastic.

Do me a favor and point to ANYTHING that I said that you take issue with.

Obviously you need to keep things in context, but really, what have I said that bothers you? Show me.

I'll be REALLY interested to see where I've said anything unreasonable.

Marc



Look at your first reply to my post. See where you used all caps for the phrase 'more conservative' over and over.

Now look at your other thread, where you explain that you used to jump a Viper 105, and now you're looking at something in the 120-135 range, and thinking Stiletto or X-fire2.

I'LL USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'LL UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER, A STILETTO 120 WHEN FLOWN WITH YOUR 10 ADDITIONAL LBS OF BODYWEIGHT YOU'VE GAINED IS ABOUT THE EXACT SAME THING AS YOUR VIPER 105. A X-FIRE2 119 AT YOUR CURRENT WEIGHT, OR EVEN A 129, IS WAY MORE CANOPY THAN A VIPER 105.

BESIDES THOSE CONCRETE REASONS THAT YOU SEEM LIKE YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT, YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS ANYONE WHO SAYS THINGS YOU DON'T LIKE IS ALSO PROBLEMATIC. YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM 11 YEARS AGO IS GREAT, BUT IT'S FROM 11 YEARS AGO. ACCORDING TO YOUR PROFILE, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE SPORT FOR 19 YEARS, WHICH GIVES YOU 8 YEARS OF JUMPING AND 11 YEARS ON THE GROUND. FIGURE THAT AT LEAST 3 OF THOSE 8 YEARS WERE SPENT AT A STUDENT AND NEWBIE JUMPER, YOU HAVE ALL OF 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE WITH ANYTHING CLOSE TO SMALL OR HP CANOPY, AT THAT WAS 11 YEARS AND 10LBS AGO. (OOPS, DID I SLIP BACK INTO CONCRETE EVIDENCE?).

Serisouly, dial it back a notch. You used to be rated, current, and from the sounds of it, jumping hard every week. Now you're older, fatter, and slower (not by much, but those are factors) and you even admit that your jumping pace wil be 'relaxed' at best. It's going to take more than one upsize (or two) for the new you to really be making a 'conservative' choice.

I'll repeat a story from last summer when another jumper came back from a layoff. This guy was also an AFF/TI and a gold medal winning 4-way competitor. He had been out of the sport for about 5 or 6 years. In any case, he hit the DZ and said, 'What do I need to do here? Should I sit in on the classroom portion of the FJC? Do you want to me to take the FJC test? The hanging harness? You guys tell me, you're the experts now, I haven't been here in years'.

Despite being a rated, experienced, and highly skilled jumper, 5 or 6 years was enough for him to know that there was no harm in 'easing' his way back into things. As it was, we did a 3-way RW jump for his recurrency dive, turned 2 points on the hill and another 12 or 14 before break off. The point of the story is his attitude. You can't go wrong dialing it back, and you can go very wrong pushing too hard right out of the blocks.

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Ok, so did you read the post where I explained all of the different canopies I've owned and jumped, and how I understand how different canopies have different "sweet spots" with regard to wing loading? I could land an FX 88 just fine, but had a hard time shutting down my Jedei 105, and my Sabre 120 was too small - 135 was the sweet spot for me on Sabres. Sabre 97 was extremely sketchy but I could swoop a Stiletto 107 into off-field landings all day long -- different canopies.

So - 88 good. 120 bad. Yeah, different canopies have different characteristics. That's what I'm asking for input on. Sheesh.


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Quote

Dude. You read my other thread. Fantastic.

Do me a favor and point to ANYTHING that I said that you take issue with.

Obviously you need to keep things in context, but really, what have I said that bothers you? Show me.

I'll be REALLY interested to see where I've said anything unreasonable.

Marc



Look at your first reply to my post. See where you used all caps for the phrase 'more conservative' over and over.

Now look at your other thread, where you explain that you used to jump a Viper 105, and now you're looking at something in the 120-135 range, and thinking Stiletto or X-fire2.

I'LL USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'LL UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER, A STILETTO 120 WHEN FLOWN WITH YOUR 10 ADDITIONAL LBS OF BODYWEIGHT YOU'VE GAINED IS ABOUT THE EXACT SAME THING AS YOUR VIPER 105. A X-FIRE2 119 AT YOUR CURRENT WEIGHT, OR EVEN A 129, IS WAY MORE CANOPY THAN A VIPER 105.

BESIDES THOSE CONCRETE REASONS THAT YOU SEEM LIKE YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT, YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS ANYONE WHO SAYS THINGS YOU DON'T LIKE IS ALSO PROBLEMATIC. YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM 11 YEARS AGO IS GREAT, BUT IT'S FROM 11 YEARS AGO. ACCORDING TO YOUR PROFILE, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE SPORT FOR 19 YEARS, WHICH GIVES YOU 8 YEARS OF JUMPING AND 11 YEARS ON THE GROUND. FIGURE THAT AT LEAST 3 OF THOSE 8 YEARS WERE SPENT AT A STUDENT AND NEWBIE JUMPER, YOU HAVE ALL OF 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE WITH ANYTHING CLOSE TO SMALL OR HP CANOPY, AT THAT WAS 11 YEARS AND 10LBS AGO. (OOPS, DID I SLIP BACK INTO CONCRETE EVIDENCE?).

Serisouly, dial it back a notch. You used to be rated, current, and from the sounds of it, jumping hard every week. Now you're older, fatter, and slower (not by much, but those are factors) and you even admit that your jumping pace wil be 'relaxed' at best. It's going to take more than one upsize (or two) for the new you to really be making a 'conservative' choice.

I'll repeat a story from last summer when another jumper came back from a layoff. This guy was also an AFF/TI and a gold medal winning 4-way competitor. He had been out of the sport for about 5 or 6 years. In any case, he hit the DZ and said, 'What do I need to do here? Should I sit in on the classroom portion of the FJC? Do you want to me to take the FJC test? The hanging harness? You guys tell me, you're the experts now, I haven't been here in years'.

Despite being a rated, experienced, and highly skilled jumper, 5 or 6 years was enough for him to know that there was no harm in 'easing' his way back into things. As it was, we did a 3-way RW jump for his recurrency dive, turned 2 points on the hill and another 12 or 14 before break off. The point of the story is his attitude. You can't go wrong dialing it back, and you can go very wrong pushing too hard right out of the blocks.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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because of how uncurrent you are, 11 years layoff, you are in not much better a position than someone with 200 jumps...



I'd say he's on a way better position than someone with 200 jumps. He;s done lots of swooping, still on a pretty advanced canopy for the day and is uninjured, it's like riding a bike. That being said, any new canopy has to be treated with caution even when your current and have thousands of jumps. I'd say something like the Saber2 150 would be great for you. It's fun and capable with reasonable openings, people shouldn't look at you like some noob because you jump a 150.

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Ok, so did you read the post where I explained all of the different canopies I've owned and jumped, and how I understand how different canopies have different "sweet spots" with regard to wing loading? I could land an FX 88 just fine, but had a hard time shutting down my Jedei 105, and my Sabre 120 was too small - 135 was the sweet spot for me on Sabres. Sabre 97 was extremely sketchy but I could swoop a Stiletto 107 into off-field landings all day long -- different canopies



Yeah, I did. That's where I got the impression that you felt like you knew it all already, and we're only interested in one piece of information. You wanted to hear what you wanted to hear, and everything else was just 'wrong'. It's a bad attitude, and not one that's going to serve you well as a long-time dormant jumper looking to make a casual return the sport.

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...
I've been out of the sport for 11 years but got recurrent today. Wondering what main canopies I should consider? Here's some background:

- 1300+ jumps, and was jumping a Viper 105 when I quit (very similar to the Stiletto 107). I have close to 1000 jumps on ellipticals wing-loaded at 1.5 to 1.8.

- I'm 42. Not as young as I once was, but still in decent shape.

- I'm not coming back full-time at this particular point in my life. If I were, then I would work my way into a sub-100 sq/ft cross-braced canopy and stay current with it. I'll probably make less than 100 jumps per year.

- My typical approach will probably be a 90-ish degree front-riser turn to landing. I like a good turf surf but I won't be getting too crazy with it since I probably won't be jumping enough to fly at the level I used to.

So, with that background in mind, I'm thinking something in the 120-135 range would work (my exit weight now is about 195). But what???

...




I bolded some parts of your post that are key. You haven't jumped up until now for over a decade. While I do agree that things come back pretty quick in the sport - I can't imagine jumping anything near what I jump currently after taking 10 years off.

You also said that you're not going to be jumping regularly. 100 jumps a year, do you do a 12 month season there in virginia? If so you're looking at 8-9 jumps per month. Likely jumping 1 day a month with around 30 days in between jumps?

Even if you only do a 8 month season that's still only 12 jumps a month.

That fact right there, makes anything in the crossfire/katana class a for sure no-go.

If it was me, I would possibly consider going with a stilletto 135, since that is what you did have most(??) of your jumps on?

That condition outstanding, with the number of intended jumps you plan on making - pilot / safire / saber2 / storm / spectre. Anything in that class is the reasonable canopy to jump if you don't want to kill or maim yourself given how often you intend to skydive.

(Which for the record, I don't consider to be very much at all, not that there is anything wrong with that.)
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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I have a Firebolt 164, it is the best all around main canopy I’ve jumped since the 7 cell CruiseLite from ParaFlite.

Easy openings and smooth landings. I can go for the disk in the pea gravel target or just land safe on a bad spot. B|

Do a search for posts on the Firebolt from www.Jumpshack.com

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

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Reasonable points, made with a reasonable tone. Thank you!

I have more experience swoop landing a Viper 105 (similar to Stiletto 107) than any other canopy or landing style, but I've jumped as low as an FX 88.

I would say that I'm in equivalent shape now to 11 years ago. Yes, I've gained 10 pounds, but it's mostly muscle and not fat. I work out some now. Quite a few of my jumps were with a weight vest and/or a relatively heavy camera helmet, so my "average" exit weight probably hasn't changed much at all.

I jumped a Sabre2 170 for my recurrency, and it was a piece of cake. Nice canopy (and much better than the original Sabre), but I could tell that I would be bored with it quickly. I'm not at all worried about a Stiletto 135 (and I have a line on a used one that I will probably fly in a couple of weeks).

My intention in posting here was simply to find out what my other options are. Different canopies are DIFFERENT, and newer designs tend to have better flight characteristics than older designs, which is why I figured I might go as small as a 120. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't, but since there are a bunch of newer designs (likely with better bottom end flare) it seems like a reasonable question.

Along the lines of what someone else said, it really is like riding a bike. OF COURSE you're going to ride the bike more conservatively when you first get back on it, but you still know how to ride the damn thing. LOL.

It's funny how you can be an expert with multiple ratings getting paid for your expert judgment and then ask a simple question about MORE CONSERVATIVE canopies than you used to jump and suddenly have a bunch of people jump on your shit, LOL.

Then again, I was a regular on rec.skydiving starting in '96 and nothing has really changed. The "regulars" still circle the wagons when a "new person" strolls in with a question. LOL

Thanks again for reasonable comments with a reasonable tone. I've actually had a couple of people PM me with some really good advice too - they just didn't want to be involved in a flame war. Me? I don't care. Flame on. ;)

Marc



Quote


...
I've been out of the sport for 11 years but got recurrent today. Wondering what main canopies I should consider? Here's some background:

- 1300+ jumps, and was jumping a Viper 105 when I quit (very similar to the Stiletto 107). I have close to 1000 jumps on ellipticals wing-loaded at 1.5 to 1.8.

- I'm 42. Not as young as I once was, but still in decent shape.

- I'm not coming back full-time at this particular point in my life. If I were, then I would work my way into a sub-100 sq/ft cross-braced canopy and stay current with it. I'll probably make less than 100 jumps per year.

- My typical approach will probably be a 90-ish degree front-riser turn to landing. I like a good turf surf but I won't be getting too crazy with it since I probably won't be jumping enough to fly at the level I used to.

So, with that background in mind, I'm thinking something in the 120-135 range would work (my exit weight now is about 195). But what???

...




I bolded some parts of your post that are key. You haven't jumped up until now for over a decade. While I do agree that things come back pretty quick in the sport - I can't imagine jumping anything near what I jump currently after taking 10 years off.

You also said that you're not going to be jumping regularly. 100 jumps a year, do you do a 12 month season there in virginia? If so you're looking at 8-9 jumps per month. Likely jumping 1 day a month with around 30 days in between jumps?

Even if you only do a 8 month season that's still only 12 jumps a month.

That fact right there, makes anything in the crossfire/katana class a for sure no-go.

If it was me, I would possibly consider going with a stilletto 135, since that is what you did have most(??) of your jumps on?

That condition outstanding, with the number of intended jumps you plan on making - pilot / safire / saber2 / storm / spectre. Anything in that class is the reasonable canopy to jump if you don't want to kill or maim yourself given how often you intend to skydive.

(Which for the record, I don't consider to be very much at all, not that there is anything wrong with that.)
A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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My first canopy was a CruiseLite. I didn't keep it long. I did replace it with another product from Para-Flite, however. A Turbo-Z 165. F-111 bottom panels and Zero-P top panels. It was an ok canopy at the time (actually more fun than a Sabre 170, imo).

I don't want anything quite as big as a 164, but I do thank you for the recommendation!

Marc



Quote

I have a Firebolt 164, it is the best all around main canopy I’ve jumped since the 7 cell CruiseLite from ParaFlite.

Easy openings and smooth landings. I can go for the disk in the pea gravel target or just land safe on a bad spot. B|

Do a search for posts on the Firebolt from www.Jumpshack.com


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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Dave - Fingers plugging my ears. Lalalalalalala I can't HEAR you lalalalalalalala..... LOL

For anyone to think that I'm not aware of the risks and/or capable of making informed decisions is silly. I'm a fairly conservative guy. I'm the one who used to lecture about conservatism and a moderate approach to new canopies, and now I'm GETTING lectured. Highly amusing!

I was also a pretty decent canopy pilot (11 years ago - yes, I'm very aware of my uncurrency). Obviously I wasn't a rock star canopy pilot at only 1300 jumps, but I made a lot of fun swoop landings in a very safe manner, and I did jump a LOT of different canopies. I do have a clue.

Key take-away: Marc has a clue.

Marc


Quote

Quote

Ok, so did you read the post where I explained all of the different canopies I've owned and jumped, and how I understand how different canopies have different "sweet spots" with regard to wing loading? I could land an FX 88 just fine, but had a hard time shutting down my Jedei 105, and my Sabre 120 was too small - 135 was the sweet spot for me on Sabres. Sabre 97 was extremely sketchy but I could swoop a Stiletto 107 into off-field landings all day long -- different canopies



Yeah, I did. That's where I got the impression that you felt like you knew it all already, and we're only interested in one piece of information. You wanted to hear what you wanted to hear, and everything else was just 'wrong'. It's a bad attitude, and not one that's going to serve you well as a long-time dormant jumper looking to make a casual return the sport.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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Sabre 150,,, PFFF:S.

Yes maybe for the first few jumps back hire some gear of that size, but someone suggesting to buy a 150 sabre2 is ridiculous.

You have over 1000 jumps. I recommend a crossfire 119 for you.

They are a very predictable canopy, great openings, nice mellow glide ratio but can be swooped as well.

I also recommend getting a used one as you will likely downsize relatively soon, the information on canopy piloting is massive out there so talk to some proficient swoopers and be prepared to forget everything you learned on your highly elliptical stiletto style canopy...

Stilettos and the likes have been found to be the worst canopies for swooping progression as they recover too quickly and leave very little margin for error...

Take your time and do some hop n pop's, get some coaching from a good coach.

Welcome back!B|

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Marc

I really think anyone telling you to "get canopy x" is doing you a disservice.

You know that you're going to have to ease back into the smaller sizes, and that's what you are doing. Once you are back at the 135/120 point I suggest that you demo a bunch of different canopies to decide what YOU like.

It seems to me that one of the keys to your point is an interest in knowing what the newer canopy designs are like and therefore you should have a list to try not a single model recommended to you.

Here's a start on the list:

Pilot
Safire2
Sabre2
Stiletto
Crossfire2
Katana

I take Fast's point about your potential currency being a little low for the last two, but I don't think they necessarily have to be a problem. Canopies don't kill people, pilots do. The statistics prove that.

There are certainly more models out there that you could try but the above list is a good starting point depending on what you want.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Yes, I'm not looking for advice on just getting any one particular canopy. I am looking for advice on which several different canopies may be suitable.

At this point I've gotten what I came for, through a combination of helpful responses and helpful PMs.

I have a line on a Stiletto 135 that I will be flying in a couple of weeks. If all checks out then I will make an offer on the rig. Stiletto/Viper ellipticals are what most of my jumps were on, and the 135 is two sizes larger than what I used to jump. I will also fly it fairly conservatively. Once I get more recurrent I will explore other options - Sabre2, Crossfire2, Katana, maybe Velo. I'll ease myself into it.

NOW, the rig I will be flying in a couple of weeks doesn't have an AAD. So clearly someone needs to come along and tell me that I'm waaaaayyy too uncurrent to be jumping without an AAD. Lol. Flame on.

Marc


Quote

Marc

I really think anyone telling you to "get canopy x" is doing you a disservice.

You know that you're going to have to ease back into the smaller sizes, and that's what you are doing. Once you are back at the 135/120 point I suggest that you demo a bunch of different canopies to decide what YOU like.

It seems to me that one of the keys to your point is an interest in knowing what the newer canopy designs are like and therefore you should have a list to try not a single model recommended to you.

Here's a start on the list:

Pilot
Safire2
Sabre2
Stiletto
Crossfire2
Katana

I take Fast's point about your potential currency being a little low for the last two, but I don't think they necessarily have to be a problem. Canopies don't kill people, pilots do. The statistics prove that.

There are certainly more models out there that you could try but the above list is a good starting point depending on what you want.


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

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:)
WE have a concern for your safety,...

This is your response:

"Dave - Fingers plugging my ears. Lalalalalalala I can't HEAR you lalalalalalalala..... LOL

For anyone to think that I'm not aware of the risks and/or capable of making informed decisions is silly."

And yet you persist in asking advice, the very act of asking for advice is an admission that there is stuff you don't know about.

Marc, I don't get it

Enjoy your lecture,...:)
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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jumping without an AAD. Lol. Flame on.

Marc



I can't believe the shit storm that parts of this thread have become. Some people just can't get over the fact that skydiving is an adult activity and that adults who understand the sport are entitled to decide for themselves the amount of risk they want to assume.

I have no canopy suggestions for you. I've been flying the same Stiletto 170 myself for nearly 20 years. I do want to say welcome back, be careful and enjoy. Thank God these people who would like nanny state regulation don't rule.

Ken
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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:(

IF he was an "adult" he would decide for himself???


I think the responses are drivin firstly by someone who is saying in the same sentance "I wan't to know the differences between a Katana and a Pilot / Saber, (that's a Saber one we are speaking about)

Cause Marc here dosent know the difference between a Katana and an original saber?

There is something wrong even asking this question!

And then there is all of this retoric about tell me what I want to know, just that, nothing else???

It's the same thing if you signed up for a computer class and then start telling the instructor what you want to learn::S Why did the person sign up for the class?

This has nothing to do with being or not being an adult.

Just so everyone knows, no one is going to let Marc demo a perigrine...even if he is an adult. What do yo have to say about that???

ya know this person has been very vocal about what he wants to hear and or not hear,...

But in the same sentance he doesn't know the differnce between these canopies, there is something wrong here!! And quite frankly someone who is walking around stateing their an expert shouldn't be asking these questions! It is really like holding up a sign, "I'm an expeert but I don't know how a Katana flies in relation to a Pilot???"

If he was this gung ho to learn the differences,...

let him do what the rest of us have done and just visit DeLand and demo whatever!

That would be the adult thing to do!

C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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