virgin-burner 1 #126 February 14, 2013 QuoteQuote Rhys aka "swoopin" I think that does explain a lot. you should know how that works, or, did you forget already!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craigbey 0 #127 February 15, 2013 DocPop probably isn't wearing a tin foil hat and he posted information in this thread specifically regarding the Peregrine canopy. Do you have any fresh insights into the evolution and design of this canopy or how it flies? Considering how long the Velocity has been at the front of the PD product line for high performance canopies, this new wing is rather special. It appears to be a very different canopy and it has captured the interest of many pilots. We may not earn a chance to fly it, but we're still very curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #128 February 16, 2013 In sport skydiving there is a "potential" huge demand for high-end products (peregrine and petra are high-end) but within that "potential" market there are only *few* ready to be consumers for high-end products. The others are wannabe. Given the level of skills demanded by the high-end and the severity of the consequences when that demand is not meet, making the high-end open to the entire "potential" market is un-wise. Injuries, death will create law-suits and will affect PD image/brand. In military skydiving there's no market for high-end. In other words the high-end market it's very very small. I don't know what would it be their break even point for the investment but they will not reach it. PD doesn't make money with their new high-end product. Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else. If it's passion or ego they wouldn't copy the other business competitors. But I do understand what you mean.Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #129 February 16, 2013 Quote Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else. Something else? It's pretty clear really. It's a great marketing too for all the wannabe swoopers to have Team PD win the meets with the top of the line Perigrine, or Scalpel, or whatever their new ones will be. And that makes perfect sense to me. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt002 0 #130 February 16, 2013 Quote In other words the high-end market it's very very small. I don't know what would it be their break even point for the investment but they will not reach it. PD doesn't make money with their new high-end product. Their drive for peregrine could be passion, ego or something else. I can remember the first time i ever saw 'real' swooping. It was a video of the Empuriabrava Kings of Swoop 2006. I was pretty new to skydiving and watching Jay and Jonathon fighting for first place was inspirational, I decided straight away that I would dedicate the rest of my skydiving to learning the discipline of canopy piloting in the hopes of one day being able to compete in a competition like that. Jay and Johnathon were flying the PD velocity at the time, so naturally, I decided that I would follow suit with progression through the PD product range, like many others did. My first new canopy as a result was a PD sabre 2, I also went on to purchase 1 katana, 1 velocity and 2 comp velos from new, also bought perhaps 3 second hand sabre 2s, 1 katana and another standard velo during progressive down sizes. When I started wing suiting I bought a PD spectre 120. edited to add 2 PD reserves and 1 PD optimum reserve. You are right, PD will not make any money selling the Perigrine to the skydiving public, thats not the point. They do however, need to ensure that the guys on the podium are flying PD canopies, selecting who can fly the most advantageous wing will help in doing this. PD make great products, have great customer service and the factory team have driven the standard in Canopy Piloting to where it currently is. They are however, a business. Not a charitable foundation set up so save skydivers from themselves as some people seem to think. There was no rush of 'wanna be' pilots going in when the comp velo was released, the only people who I ever saw fly then were competitive canopy pilots. I guess PD have a better strategy this time round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #131 February 16, 2013 I totally agree with you guys. From where I'm standing I'm thinking that if one of the brands focus on mass transition of the wannabe to high end consumers, in the long run they could win the brand war and make more money from high-end. In other words reduce the education cost (compared with what's currently available) to increase the high-end market and then increase the high-end price I would love to be a part of a project like that. Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #132 February 17, 2013 QuoteWell that sounds quite different to impression I got reading this http://www.performancedesigns.com/peregrine_info.asp Wow! PD sounds a little full of themselves here. They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. I dont know what the rules are with what canopy you can use in comps. Im thinking that its for sale for that reason but they pick who to sell too. I dont have a problem with that at all. I mean one of reasons to get on a team is to have more of a edge right? (support,gear ect) I love my velo and thinking of stepping up to a comp. As far as copying, of course companies copy products. It happens in every market. Why should PD be any different. They are just keeping up with times. Looks like they are doing a good job of it too.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #133 February 17, 2013 QuoteThey should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #134 February 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteThey should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team. And I just ordered two 55's yesterday so we know that isn't true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleGobble 0 #135 February 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team. And I just ordered two [B]55's[/B] yesterday so we know that isn't true. Jebus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #136 February 18, 2013 Quote Quote Quote They should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team. And I just ordered two 55's yesterday so we know that isn't true. Are you going to sew them together to make one canopy that you would load at 4:1? --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #137 February 18, 2013 They didn't even ask my experience with HP canopies. I was told they were not for sale to the general public. I'm not the best HP canopy pilot but I have flown my fair share of canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #138 February 18, 2013 Quote They didn't even ask my experience with HP canopies. They didn't ask me either, but I still think it's neat.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #139 February 18, 2013 Hell, I think its awesome. But why do people say its for sale when its not. Thats a blatant lie where I'm from. BTW, I still have all those plastic canopies that I used to fly at SDH. And they are still in great shape. I'm still waiting for someone to make a production canopy out of this material. I recall actually placing at a swoop meet with one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #140 February 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteThey should just say we made a new canopy for our team so they can kick more ass. Nonsense. If that were true it wouldn't be available outside of the Factory Team. Just thinking out loud here. Who outside the team is it available too? A hand full of people? I can care less to be honest. I am having hard enough time wanting to get the scratch together for a comp velo. I am deff not paying 3500 plus for a canopy to compete 2-3 times a year. So again no worries I can careless who they go to. I do think its a wing and like every other wing you fly whats over your head. Wording is everything and the way they worded the article on said canopy makes them (pd) sound snooty to me at least from a public relation stand point.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deathwish603 0 #141 March 10, 2013 Whats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou...Im a doctor! And I prescribe you skydiving, skydiving and more skydiving !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AiRpollUtiOn 0 #142 March 15, 2013 I read this thread from A to Z, Oh how wonderfull this internet is..."Don't make me come down there" - God. My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMichaeli 1 #143 March 16, 2013 Not sure if this was covered but i didn't see it. Ian can you shed any light on why is this wing only for sub terminal jumps? I am NO where close to flying this thing nor do i really think i will ever i'm just curious about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #144 March 16, 2013 from the sound of it, ultra-light and thin lines plus very high wing-loads. Sounds like a good choice for snapped lines or a cracked neck!In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #145 March 17, 2013 Quote from the sound of it, ultra-light and thin lines plus very high wing-loads. Sounds like a good choice for snapped lines or a cracked neck! I doubt it's something that simple. If it were, you could swap out the lines and take it to terminal all day. Designing a canopy is full of tradeoffs. You might want an ultra long dive which could come in part from an extremely steep trim, but a steep trim might be BAD news at terminal opening. We deploy at half brakes for a reason! You want lots of lift and control of wing tip vortices, so you go with a Schumann planform, but maybe the hyper-responsiveness that comes with that planform and that trying to reliably control a terminal deployment aren't compatible... Usually designers compromise to get the best of all the factors they want... I'm guessing the design brief for the Peregrine went something along the lines of 'we want a primary swooping machine. Not a skydiving canopy that can be used for swooping. Focus on the former...' My guess as to why it isn't meant to be taken to terminal? It wasn't designed to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #146 March 17, 2013 Quote My guess as to why it isn't meant to be taken to terminal? It wasn't designed to be. Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juzzie 0 #147 March 25, 2013 QuoteWhats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou... PD got a Petra. Pulled it apart, put it back together. Stuck a PD logo o. There and called it a peregrine. Icarus did the r&d PD put their spin on it*IF AT FIRST YOU DONT SUCCEED... SKYDIVING IS NOT FOR YOU!!!* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #148 March 25, 2013 QuoteQuoteWhats a difference? VS VELO PRO or PETRA for example? Looks awsome thou... PD got a Petra. Pulled it apart, put it back together. Stuck a PD logo o. There and called it a peregrine. Icarus did the r&d PD put their spin on it Thanks for your informed opinion. Now, just so I can check - you're basing this assertion on Personal familiarity with both parachutes? Knowledge of the construction patterns of both? Firsthand information of the PD / Icarus R&D process? come on - You're posting this as fact on a public forum, so I'm asking you for your evidence. Put up or shut up. By the way, 'I heard' doesn't cut it... I'm bored of all the Icarus vs PD bullshit that's been going on for years. The fanboyism is rediculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divegoddess 0 #149 March 25, 2013 http://vimeo.com/54289143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #150 March 25, 2013 Quote http://vimeo.com/54289143 Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
