Katana 120.... Next step?

[DocPop 1]

I am getting to the point where I want more speed from my canopy and wanted to get some opinions on what should be my next step.

I am currently loading my KA120 at a shade under 1.7 and doing 180s (pretty much nailed them) and 270s (still needs work on consistency). I don't do anything other than canopy work (no work jumps etc so that's not a consideration).

PD recommend a VE103 as the recovery arc/ sight picture is apparently similar, and I like the idea of having a little more bottom end flare. However I wondered if at that WL (about 1.9) I might better with a KA107 until I can get to the VE96.

I will make this move when my 270s are consistent, not before, so really just looking for answers on a 1.9 loading on a VE103 vs a KA107.

Thanks.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[SRI85 0]

I wanna see what your swoops look like. Post a video.

[DocPop 1]

I don't have any, and anyway I am not asking for opinions on my swoops. I want to know what the best next step is given the parameters I have listed.

If/when I want canopy coaching I'll go to Alter Ego or Flight-1.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Fast 0]

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PD recommend a VE103 as the recovery arc/ sight picture is apparently similar, and I like the idea of having a little more bottom end flare. However I wondered if at that WL (about 1.9) I might better with a KA107 until I can get to the VE96.

My experience is different, I didn't go to anything near as aggressive till substantially higher jump numbers, but I would agree with PD. I think that at the given wing loadings, the velocity is a substantially better flying parachute in all manners of flight except opening.

If PD recommended the Velo, what makes you want to question that?

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DocPop 1]

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If PD recommended the Velo, what makes you want to question that?

That's a fair question. I've been reading on here and some people have voiced the opinion that under 2.0 a Velocity is a waste of money.

Just casting my net a little wider for information, but you're right, I put a lot of weight behind PD's advice.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[AggieDave 6]

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270s (still needs work on consistency).

Are you the master of your current canopy or do you think there might be some things to work on before moving on to a more powerful wing?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DocPop 1]

No, not mastered it 100%, I want more speed. Hence..

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I will make this move when my 270s are consistent, not before,

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[ianmdrennan 2]

Not sure how many jumps you've done this year, but my thoughts are that you should stick under your current wing and do another couple hundred jumps on it. Take the opportunity to focus on your technique under the wing you feel comfortable with (a KA 120 is plenty speedy
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[DocPop 1]

Thank you, Ian.

Maybe I'll spend this year's canopy money on coaching to nail those elusive 270s....
I believe that the techniques I learn on the KA will transfer well to the Velo when the time comes?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[chuckakers 369]

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Not sure how many jumps you've done this year, but my thoughts are that you should stick under your current wing and do another couple hundred jumps on it. Take the opportunity to focus on your technique under the wing you feel comfortable with (a KA 120 is plenty speedy
Blues,
Ian

Listen to Ian.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Thank you, Ian.

Maybe I'll spend this year's canopy money on coaching to nail those elusive 270s....
I believe that the techniques I learn on the KA will transfer well to the Velo when the time comes?

Pleasure.

Personally I think the money will be way better spent getting coaching. It's learn good habits than to go back and fix old/bad ones
As far as the skills transitioning well.....Definitely. The KA->Velo transition is pretty 'natural' as long as too big of a jump isn't made.

Blues!
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I am getting to the point where I want more speed from my canopy and wanted to get some opinions on what should be my next step.

Put 600 jumps on your current canopy and learn how to really fly it.

Stretching your turn out over more altitude will give you longer to accelerate for more speed and coaching will help.

[DocPop 1]

Thanks again.

You always make a bunch of sense. I'd like to try to get to one of your courses if things work out.

As tempting as it is to buy a faster wing, I guess being a better pilot is a much more desirable state which will transfer to any wing. I just need to control the "instant gratification" part of my brain!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DocPop 1]

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Stretching your turn out over more altitude will give you longer to accelerate for more speed and coaching will help.

I try to do this. I am using 700' as my IP altitude for my 270. How does this sound for a 1.7 WL Katana? (@ 750' MSL)

I struggle to keep it in the dive the whole time, but I know it's possible so the times when it doesn't work must be down to bad technique. That's what I mean by poor consistency on my part.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[stayhigh 2]

If your jump number is accurate, at 600 jumps. I'd say do another lineset on ka 120 and move to velo 96 or 90.

Consistant 270 and learning how to do blindman, and switchblade, ect. ie freestyle move is much easier to learn with mellow canopy vs trying to learn how to do it on a crossbraced.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[DocPop 1]

Thanks - I hadn't even considered the freestyle moves.

I have not ventured anywhere near them (apart from an enforced "switchblade" due to a dislocated shoulder!!).

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[stayhigh 2]

Yeah, couple of my friends started freestyle moves with crossfire and katana, way before they started to jump x-braced canopy. Once they moved to vx and velos. they found it much eaiser to do freestyle moves.

They started freestyle simply the same reason, they had about 500 jumps, they wanted to fly x-braced but so many people gave them shit about it. So they just simply turned things around on landing.

People had bounce bingo going on with this two, but they never bounced, and hopefully never will.

Some can downsize super quick and yet be perfectly fine, if others give you shit about what you fly, simply turn that shit all the way around, stand up, and give them a middle finger.

After doing this for a while, the haters came up with the new rule of "the harness has to be facing same direction and lines can not be twisted while work jump landing."


So they started their journey on ghost rider and switchblades, which I think they are more dangerous than blindman or miracle man.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[SRI85 0]

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Stretching your turn out over more altitude will give you longer to accelerate for more speed and coaching will help.

I try to do this. I am using 700' as my IP altitude for my 270. How does this sound for a 1.7 WL Katana? (@ 750' MSL)

I struggle to keep it in the dive the whole time, but I know it's possible so the times when it doesn't work must be down to bad technique. That's what I mean by poor consistency on my part.

I think 700 is a little low. I think 820ft is closer to what it should be for 1.7 At 1.9 I start at 890.

[stayhigh 2]

IP may very, due to turn rate, air density, how much fronts are you pulling.

Telling someone to turn higher and not seeing how they land is typically wrong answer.

Almost 900 ft for a 270 on a katana sounds little too much, but than again, I haven't seen you landing this thing yet, so I'll shut up.

Katana does dive hard tho. I feel like I turn my 120 almsot same height as my velo 96.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I try to do this. I am using 700' as my IP altitude for my 270. How does this sound for a 1.7 WL Katana? (@ 750' MSL)

It's so dependent on so many things I really don't believe anyone can answer the "is this the right altitude" question (online)

Instead I'd say you should start as high as you possibly can while making sure the turn is slow enough to not be rushed, but accelerating fast enough in rotation rate to ensure airspeed continues to build.

My motto "Start the turn as high as I possibly can"
Lets get some coaching scheduled brotha!

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[DocPop 1]

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After doing this for a while, the haters came up with the new rule of "the harness has to be facing same direction and lines can not be twisted while work jump landing."

That sounds like pure jealousy!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DocPop 1]

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My motto "Start the turn as high as I possibly can"

That's what I have been striving for.

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Lets get some coaching scheduled brotha!

Ian

Yep, coaching is what's needed here.

Thanks to all for keeping this thread constructive.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Fast 0]

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After doing this for a while, the haters came up with the new rule of "the harness has to be facing same direction and lines can not be twisted while work jump landing."

That sounds like pure jealousy!

That's likely, but it's also possible there are corporate liability issues for the DZO. To me, the issue would seem better solved by just not employing people who push the boundary lines while working. I dunno - people have a lot of reasons for doing the things they do.

I've been told straight up that I'm a hater and to stop hating because I was honest with someone that I thought was in over their head. I personally don't have any jealousy issues going on, cause I only swoop for fun. I just don't like seeing / dealing with injured people. It's hard for people to understand that though.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Jiggs 0]

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I think 700 is a little low. I think 820ft is closer to what it should be for 1.7 At 1.9 I start at 890.

Really! LOL you must be jumping at a high altitude or I would also think that you have an incredibly long rotation or too long double fronts.

Back on topic;

You would be far better to stay on current canopy and learn to get 270s consistently. Much better for progression in the long run. Or you can downsize and get only moderate performance on it.

120 size is probably on of the best sizes, large enough to have range, but fun enough to get some awesome performance. You can do very large/powerful turns with this size wing. Learn to fly it well and you will be able to generate good power - it will also have the added benefit that you will be able to move much faster through sizes later if you spend the time learning and consolidating on this wing.

This is probably the most important time for you - invest in it now (time, coaching and jumps) and save yourself a ton of time, $$$ and trouble later. You will be a much better canopy pilot because of it.

EDIT TO ADD:

Just realised I did not answer the original question!:

After you were ready to downsize (after nailing the 120) I would think the 107 would be the way to go. If you really learned to fly the 120 very well the skills would transfer quickly. You could put sometime on this and then move to a 96 velocity.

I think the key thing is learning about the sight picture, being able to see/predict the corner/recovery arc and be able to fly well/consistently in all sorts of conditions. In order to do this well it takes time and a lot of jumps. (in my case it took me more than 300 jumps to start to do an ok 450)

Getting a smaller canopy does not help you do this. It does make us feel great because the canopy is faster while we are slightly worse off.

Anyway it is all dependent on you, your training/coaching plan and your attitude, etc. Get a good coach and consistently get coaching and go from there.

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[DocPop 1]

Thanks, mate.

The plan is to stick with this wing for some time now and get coaching.

I am itching to jump Velo, and I may well borrow one for a couple of jumps to scratch that itch, but in terms of long term gain it seems that building up my consistency on the 120 is going to be my best investment.

I started jumping Katanas at 150 jumps and have had a downsize in the middle there, so there is plenty more I can do.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA