EppyNephrine 0 #51 December 10, 2011 QuoteDoes this mean that there will be two types of Crossfire etc, with possible variances in material and manufacturing quality? Yes. I'm assuming that times have a changed a bit, but as of a few years ago, Spain Icarus hand cut their canopies while NZ has always used a precision laser cutter. This has led to some Spain made canopies being built with variances, some of which would have built in turns, for example. I have jumped both Spain and NZ made Xfires (recently manufactured) and I can say from personal experience that the two canopies do have subtle differences in flight characteristics. And yes, Daedalus is NZ only. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #52 December 10, 2011 When I was looking to buy an elliptical canopy, I was told by several experienced jumpers to keep an eye out for where an XF2 was made for the reasons that EppyNephrine mentioned. Issues could range from innocuous to kinda sketchy from what I was told. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pulse 0 #53 December 12, 2011 If I recall, this happened at least once when X-braces were new on the market. I believe it was a velo 96 and the pilot got busted up pretty bad since he didn't have altitude to kick out of the line twists. I have had another friend have a collapse on him while flying his downwind. Though significantly less violent. He ended up with line twists but luckily wasn't spinning. Kicked out and landed downwind. He was jumping an early Icarus FX. I guess fabric wings feel the need to exercise their power over us periodically."Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craigbey 0 #54 December 12, 2011 Perhaps a similar stability problem with the Vera prototype? http://www.youtube.com/user/nzaerosports#p/a/u/0/cp61uVe5NOA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #55 December 12, 2011 i've talked with a few paraglider pilots that have watched the video and these types of collapses I guess are common with paragliders when you pull on the front risers. I guess with paragliders they're not supposed to be flown using front risers. I think since the petra (and this vera) are "paragliderish" shaped they might also have some of their tendencies. Definitely interesting watching this testing, makes you appreciate those test pilots just a little bit more Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #56 December 13, 2011 Yup - it looks liek exactly the same sort of frontal collapse you'd see on paraglider-based speed wings. Those tend to fold under then reinflate really fast though, but pulling on a front riser on one of those wings is a guarenteed way to induce one! It's odd to see it happen on a wing that's designed to be flown with that type of input in mind though, and also in what must be a high pressure phase of the flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #57 December 13, 2011 Quote Yes. I'm assuming that times have a changed a bit, but as of a few years ago, Spain Icarus hand cut their canopies while NZ has always used a precision laser cutter. This has led to some Spain made canopies being built with variances, some of which would have built in turns, for example. This is exactly how mis-information gets started....First, there were never any templates to hand cut these canopies to begin with. They were/are all cut with a CAD based cutting table. Second, since you can order any size canopy that you like, (i.e. 109,110,111, and etc.), there would have to be a thousand different templates available. which they are not. Third, they use a hot knife as a end effector (cutter), not a laser. Quote I have jumped both Spain and NZ made Xfires (recently manufactured) and I can say from personal experience that the two canopies do have subtle differences in flight characteristics. Give me any two canopies from any manufacturer period and they will have "subtle" differences between the two. More true if coming from two factories... This is no different than the differences between the PD canopies made here in the US vs the same type PD canopy made in Honduras. There are subtle differences between these two factories that can be pointed out to the unknowing eye. These differences will make them fly just a little different. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #58 December 13, 2011 People seem to forget that no matter how the panels are cut at the end of the day they sewn together by humans not computers. FTR I'm on my 2nd European made XF2 since 2003 and no issues whatsoever, fantastic canopies imo..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichLees 0 #59 December 13, 2011 PGs have higher aspect ratio don't they? does scaling the span, but not the chord work? I'd have thought that the short span would be super(/suicidally) "agile". the Vera looks beautiful, but scarey shit FWIW, I thought the collapses happen as the pilot came OFF front risers. up high on a velo, I deliberately dumped my front risers a few times and didn't like the result. like a rear riser/toggle stall, smooooth let up is critical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #60 December 13, 2011 Beyond Petra: Experimenting with Vera Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #61 December 14, 2011 Super cool video, but yeah - it looks REALLY fucking twitchy on fronts after you've got it diving. I reckon Icarus took a GL canopy swooping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brokky 4 #62 December 17, 2011 QuoteOne of the Babylon guys(Fred or Kuri but a while ago so can't be sure) 2002/2003 Hot day in August. The collapse happened at altitude above 2000'. Flying normally then it just folded and spun up. Stardard Velo i believe as the comp Velo hadn't been conceived then. Happened at Empuriabrava Spain which does suffer with some funky winds from time to time. it was Kury. "Flying normally" was not the case here ...they were simulating a syncronized landing for an upcoming demo jump, Kury had both brakes in 1 hand (on brakes), simulating the movement to put the smoke on with the other hand...at that moment his canopy collapsed...not really normal flying circumstances...wuk?? http://www.brunobrokken.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #63 December 17, 2011 Thankyou for the clarity here Bruno. Hope to pay you all a visit in the new year, it's been a while .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopgaz 0 #64 December 18, 2011 A little bit of topic here but to my understanding didn't Icarus in the states start making the Icarus range under licence (approval) from NZ Aerosports. NZ Aerosports is the original Icarus and now their new range the deadalus range aswel. It's a bit like Parachutes Australia here in Oz make the talon container under licence from Rigging innovations. As far as i'm concerned there is only one Icarus and thats in NZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boyd38off 0 #65 December 19, 2011 LikeLife's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting, ".... holy crap....what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #66 December 19, 2011 QuoteAs far as i'm concerned there is only one Icarus and thats in NZ. Then you will miss a few Icarus canopies. NZ Aerosports does not seem to sell the Icarus Omni, Neos, Equinox and Reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
