A Few Canopy Control Questions

[hokierower 0]

I have a couple of questions after reading the BPA Canopy Handling & a little of the Canopy Piloting manuals and practicing some of the exercises mentioned. My canopy progression thus far has been:

Sabre 1 230 - 1 jump
Spectre 230 - 14 jumps - .9:1
Spectre 210 - 5 jumps - 1:1
Spectre 190 - 51 jumps - 1.1:1

1. I have to haul down on my front risers to sustain a turn and can only hold it for maybe a max of 360 degrees before the force starts becoming a little extreme. I believe that's due to the size of the canopy and the combination of drag and lift as the canopy reaches its maximum speed, but I'm not sure. Can someone possibly confirm or correct my suspicions?

2. After smoothly letting the riser return to its normal position the speed quickly dies off and it feels like the canopy starts to climb as the extra speed is converted to lift and altitude, however I only have a Galaxy altimeter and can't tell for certain. Is that feeling correct or is the canopy flying level and it just feels like a "climb" since I'm used to the canopy descending in a glide?

3. I don't have a lot of slack with my brake lines, which is causing the canopy to buck a bit when using front risers. I understand that this is caused by the canopy diving at the same time a smallish amount of left/right brake is being applied which is disrupting the air flowing over the wing. Since I'm not experimenting anywhere near the ground and like to keep the flare where it currently is, does the bucking create any sort of a hazardous condition? Does the small amount of applied brakes increase the turning radius of the canopy?

4. Pulling down on the front risers doesn't seem to do anything because of the brakes being pulled down at the same time. It seems that while the canopy is trying to dive, the brakes are acting like flaps and the canopy is either flying level or in a very small dive, something equivalent to a plane on jump run with the flaps down and the nose pointed down but maintaining altitude.

5. Not so much about canopy control, but more dealing with canopy progression, is there a link or article with a recommended canopy model progression when downsizing? I won't be thinking of downsizing from my 190 until at least my C license which is a minimum 130 jumps away, but while I love my Spectre and can see myself flying a 170 and 150, anything smaller than that I get a little confused as far as what canopy models are meant for what. I understand that a Velo, JVX, & Xaos are currently the end of the line, but where do the Crossfire, Katana, Stiletto, Cobalt come into play?

EDIT:

6. Is it possible to perform a forward-slip with a canopy? Back when I was still gunning for my pilots license (before paying for school got in the way) I had a bad habit of coming in to approach too high and forward slipping the plane (C-172) to the correct altitude, to the point where I scared my solo check ride instructor and was told to never do that with him again. The principle sounds like it would work, a little front riser and a little opposite toggle to decrease altitude without increasing airspeed if you found yourself too high on final, but it also sounds like a HORRIBLE idea because you're screwing with a bunch of different inputs on landing. I'll try it up high the next time I'm in the air because I just thought about this, but I searched and couldn't find anything out there besides a topic on a side-slip.

[pguyt 0]

With regards to your first four questions, the only thing I have to say is that the Spectre 190 is a reasonably large and docile canopy which will exhibit a lot of front riser pressure (Q1 - hard to pull down) and a short recovery arc (Q2 - feeling of accelerating upwards).

And with question five, check the sticky at the top of this forum with Brian Germain's downsizing chart (link: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3470220;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread). If you want to learn more about the different canopies, explore the manufacturer's websites and the gear section here at dropzone.com is pretty good, but I imagine a Spectre 190 will suit you just fine for a couple of hundred jumps.

[AggieDave 6]

1. Yeah, it will be hard to maintain a diving turn for more than about 360 degrees. It is hard to do on my Velo loaded over 2.7 as well. You're right about the drag and lift, but you're also forgetting about the weight of your body trying to get back under your canopy. If you want a really detailed description of how that works, check Germain's book.

2. That is normal, in simple terms speed = lift. You also have to contend with the change of the pitch of the canopy as the big heavy weight at the end of the rope swings forward (your body at the end of the lines).

3. Yes, distorting the tail while pulling on the front riser will cause the canopy to buck. In extreme situations, it can cause the canopy to collapse. It will also make it harder to hold a dive/turn. It also may flatten out the dive/turn.

4. Yes, but part of that is due to the size of the canopy, wingloading and spacial references. It is hard to see what the canopy is doing when you are by yourself, in clear blue sky and with out an accurate digital altimeter (like a Neptune) to monitor your altitude loss.

5. Swooping is simply taking the fundamentals and refining them to a razor sharp edge. To be a good swooper and to be a safe swooper you have to be able to accurately fly a pattern, hitting your specific points at the right altitudes. You have to be able to land accurately. You must be able to fly in slow flight. Flat turns, slow flight and understanding how/why/when your canopy stalls with different flight configurations. All of those things are infinitely more important than pulling on a front riser. Anyone can pull a front riser at an altitude and land, but a real canopy pilot can do it where he wants and safely.

Those skills are best learned now, on a canopy like the one you are flying. I wouldn't look to move to a Katana/Xfire class canopy until you have at least 500 jumps. Dedicated canopy coaching from a reputable coach will help you refine your skills more efficiently.

I wouldn't even downsize until I could land that canopy exactly where you want it, 9 times out of 10, can do flat turns (at your wingloading, you should be able to do a 180 degree turn in well under 100ft), stalls (toggles and risers), can land accurately and well flying in 1/4 brakes and 1/2 brakes. Can land accurately and safely in a moderate crosswind and no winds consistently.

Realistically, the above skills should take you around 100 jumps to be able to do safely and well. Canopy coaching will make learning the concepts behind those skills more efficiently, but absolutely nothing replaces time under canopy. Get out there, do dedicated hop-n-pops and work on those skills.

A digital altimeter will help you do these tasks more accurately.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hokierower 0]

1. Parachute & its Pilot?

2. Didn't think about the body. Thanks.

3. Roger that. I'll think about talking to a rigger for the brake lines at around 100 and play with them a little bit at a time.

4. Roger that.

5. That's what I've gleaned talking to people and the reading material and have been making a effort to learn and practice these now. Accuracy is getting better and I've landed it a couple of times in >1/2 brakes to put something that I read into physical experience. Haven't had a big chance to do crosswind landings due to a lack of wind or being in the middle of a pattern and wanting to fly it safely.

Thanks for the advice. I love flying my canopy and it gets more fun as I understand how to fly it better but I keep learning new things each jump.

Oh, and I'll be picking up a digital alti ASAP.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

I'll think about talking to a rigger for the brake lines at around 100

About 100 what?

On your next jump you need to asses your brake settings, and after that jump you need to have them adjusted according to the results of your testing. Trying to do anything with the brake lines improperly adjusted is like trying to push a rope, it just doesn't work.

To test - you need to perform a toggle stall, and note your hand position when the canopy finally stalls. You want it to stall after 2 or 3 seconds of your hands being as far down as you can reach. If the canopy stalls with your hands higher up, or with your hands down without the 2 or 3 second delay, you need to let your steering lines out.

Adjust them in 2" or 3" increments, and test the new stall point after each adjustment until the stall characteristics are as described above. Any rigger or comptent canopy pilot can assist you with this process.

Once your canopy is properly set-up, go back and investigate all the things you had questions about and see if things are more clear to you. There's no sense in jumping a canopy that's not properly set-up, and attempting to learn about canopy flight. Most of the guys who put on canopy control courses will eyeball everyone's steering lines on the first jump of the course to see if anyone is way off base and help them get adjusted so they can fly right during the course.

[faulknerwn 36]

As to no 6, it is what canopy formation folks called warping. It works well for making you sink without driving forward.

I have used it for accuracy, though I would not advise it at this point in your skydiving career. It can be tricky to keep the canopy flying straight until you get used to it. And you have to be careful coming out of it so you don't end up turning. It'd be fine for you to play with at altitude though.

[hokierower 0]

1. I'm sorry, I misworded that statement. I have done a full toggle stall on my canopy multiple times, for example, in order for me to collapse my canopy in a flare I need to fully extend my arms and then roll my shoulders forward to get an additional inch and after a second or two of fluttering it'll fold back on itself pretty as you like. In fact, the last time I did it I came out with my left end deflated and had to pump the brakes to pressurize the cells. I'm about 99% sure that happened because I let the toggles up too quickly but haven't replicated the act since then.

What I meant to say is that there is a little bit of extra brake line that could be made available, and I was thinking that once I hit 100 jumps (30 from now) that I'd ask a rigger to help me adjust the lines to try and see if it will reduce the bucking by testing it out up high.

2. Thanks for the heads up on the slip and the warning. I'll try it up high next jump.