How is speedriding any different from...

[jrjny 0]

first I'll hit the bunny slope without a canopy.

[AdD 1]

Paragliding training is probably going to be more applicable to speedflying than skydiving since it teaches you how to launch properly.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[PWScottIV 0]

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Paragliding training is probably going to be more applicable to speedflying than skydiving since it teaches you how to launch properly.

That's true, but it's really not as hard as you might think... If you can kite your canopy, you can easily launch it... Not that it's the safest activity to get into... But there's not to many hardcore bowlers here, so...

Speed Riding (1st Attempt)
Speed-Flying / Ground-Launching (At about 50 flights and 150 Skydive Landings)

I used the same Safire2 169 loaded at about 1.3 for all my ground launches and the last 100 skydives.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[AdD 1]

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That's true, but it's really not as hard as you might think... If you can kite your canopy, you can easily launch it... Not that it's the safest activity to get into... But there's not to many hardcore bowlers here, so...

I'm speaking from extensive experience in both skydiving and speedflying. A good friend died last year launching his parachute in San Diego. You have completely missed the objective of my post.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[yoink 321]

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Speed-Flying / Ground-Launching (At about 50 flights and 150 Skydive Landings)

Low experience.
Multiple camera angles.
Buzzing friends / spectators for video.
Poor launch technique.
Skydiving gear.


Dude, you're really pushing it. On top of that, you're giving poor advice. Don't.

[Rigless 0]

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Dude, you're really pushing it.

Yeh, that Safire2 is just burning across the ground!

"All limits are self imposed." Icarus

[mchamp 1]

Being your first flight ground launching I'm surprised you were able to do so using a snowboard! lol

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[PWScottIV 0]

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That's true, but it's really not as hard as you might think... If you can kite your canopy, you can easily launch it... Not that it's the safest activity to get into... But there's not to many hardcore bowlers here, so...

I'm speaking from extensive experience in both skydiving and speedflying. A good friend died last year launching his parachute in San Diego. You have completely missed the objective of my post.

I read every fatality report that gets posted (for paragliding as well), so I'm completely aware of the risks. I also have paragliding training. I'm also about to get into base jumping. I've read those fatality reports twice over... I have a good idea of what risks I'm assuming there as well. I personally feel, for myself, I owe myself the opportunity to learn what others have done that's killed or severely injured them. The first reason for this is to be able to develop a good understanding of what's likely to kill me and what's not. I spend my time thinking about how I can avoid the mistakes others have made, and not so much about things that just "feel" scary. Second, I have enough respect for my own mortality, that I want to get a good perspective (or feeling) about how likely I am to be injured / die while I'm involved with a particular activity... This way, I'm not fooling myself about whether or not I'm safe or not... The more "fear" I feel from reading about previous incidents, the more effort I invest into being prepaired - mentally, physically, equipment, training, etc.

For example, when I ground launch, I wear full motocross body armor (with chest plate, spine protection, arm plates, articulated tailbone protection, knee pads, and also paragliding boots when I'm foot launching. I also scout my landing areas well for hazards like fences, rocks, potential rotor effects, etc.

As adults, we all make a choice about what activities we want to engage in and the risks we're willing to assume. Some are more informed than others. Some look at what others are doing and make a false assumption that it's safe, just because others are doing it. I feel this is one of the most serious mistakes that risk takers make, but they're adults and this is a free country, so...

I know about your friend dying, as I read the thread when it was posted. I am sorry about that. I didn't know him, but it sounds like he was a great guy. Hard to know exactly what happened, but from what i remember, it sorta sounds like he flew through some rotor. Rotor is something I put a lot of thought into if there's high winds where I'm launching. It's easy to get soothed into thinking that if it's safe to fly in high winds at one place, then it's going to be the same at others. For myself, I try to look for terrain and other objects that might cause rotor, and if I feel there's a good chance of having a problem, I either don't fly, or avoid the area.

Will I die doing the dangerous activities I participate in? Who knows. Am I willing to accept the risks and know that they might kill, paralyze, or otherwise severely injure me? Yes. Do I want that to happen? Absolutely not. That said, I'd MUCH rather die now, doing what makes me feel alive, rather than at 90, sitting in my own fecese, wishing I hadn't been too scared to assume the risks of the activities that could have truly made me feel alive.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[PWScottIV 0]

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Speed-Flying / Ground-Launching (At about 50 flights and 150 Skydive Landings)

Low experience.
Multiple camera angles.
Buzzing friends / spectators for video.
Poor launch technique.
Skydiving gear.


Dude, you're really pushing it. On top of that, you're giving poor advice. Don't.

Really!? Ok, if anyone is stupid enough (and yes, I know they exist) to read this thread and automatically decide to go out and repeat what I did without any additional research or training, then they deserve to die. I'm not going to be quiet to protect people from their own stupidity. If they killed themselves doing that, then it would only be a matter of time before they did it some other way... On a motorcycle, swooping an ultra small canopy, etc, etc.

Let's see you try to launch on a snowboard, in similar conditions, and with no assistance and see how well you do.

Read my previous post while you're at it.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[PWScottIV 0]

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Dude, you're really pushing it.

Yeh, that Safire2 is just burning across the ground!

Yeah, I was bookin pretty fast there for a while. Lots of fun!

Gravity Waits for No One.

[PWScottIV 0]

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Being your first flight ground launching I'm surprised you were able to do so using a snowboard! lol

I had about 50 ground launches (on foot) before I did this first speed riding run. Yeah, getting up on a snowboard while kiting your canopy = not easy in the slightest.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[artard 0]

I believe you have a right to kill yourself doing dangerous activities but I think you are crossing a line when you speed ride at a ski area with innocent people around. You were flying way close to some of those bystanders and that's not cool...

http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

[PWScottIV 0]

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I believe you have a right to kill yourself doing dangerous activities but I think you are crossing a line when you speed ride at a ski area with innocent people around. You were flying way close to some of those bystanders and that's not cool...

I do agree with your point. However, people who are skiing/boarding on a black diamond run are already assuming a certain amount of risk just by being there... It's not like I'm swooping into a crowded fairground where the bystandards had no intention of assuming any risk by being there. People are killed all the time by being hit by someone speeding down a run without a canopy.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[menopause 0]

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I do agree with your point. However, people who are skiing/boarding on a black diamond run are already assuming a certain amount of risk just by being there... It's not like I'm swooping into a crowded fairground where the bystandards had no intention of assuming any risk by being there. People are killed all the time by being hit by someone speeding down a run without a canopy.

People assume a certain amount of risk when they cross a street too, it doesn't make it okay for you to ignore all traffic signs and stoplights because you are an EXPERT DRIVER and hey they assumed the risk!

I just hope you don't take anyone else out with you.

[PWScottIV 0]

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I do agree with your point. However, people who are skiing/boarding on a black diamond run are already assuming a certain amount of risk just by being there... It's not like I'm swooping into a crowded fairground where the bystandards had no intention of assuming any risk by being there. People are killed all the time by being hit by someone speeding down a run without a canopy.

People assume a certain amount of risk when they cross a street too, it doesn't make it okay for you to ignore all traffic signs and stoplights because you are an EXPERT DRIVER and hey they assumed the risk!

I just hope you don't take anyone else out with you.

And who says I was breaking the rules? I emailed the Heavenly ski patrol at two separate addresses and asked them if they had any specific rules against it. And when I spoke with the ski patrol director, he said they didn't have any specific rules against it and he didn't say to not do it again...

So what's your point exactly? That cars shouldn't be allowed on the roadways because a pedestrian might get run over? Maybe we should ban skydiving everywhere except for Golf airspace (Which is essentially all dropzones)... I mean what happens if someone freefalls through someones house and kills their children?! Think about the children! Oh the humanity!

Gravity Waits for No One.

[menopause 0]

You might not understand it at this point, but your kind of attitude is what gets people killed. I'm not saying you will get someone killed, and you will probably end up getting away with most of the stuff you are doing now. What I am saying is you don't fully realize the risk you are putting yourself and others in when you do these kinds of things. Hopefully your skydiving career will continue without incident and you will look back and think about how lucky you were.

[PWScottIV 0]

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You might not understand it at this point, but your kind of attitude is what gets people killed. I'm not saying you will get someone killed, and you will probably end up getting away with most of the stuff you are doing now. What I am saying is you don't fully realize the risk you are putting yourself and others in when you do these kinds of things. Hopefully your skydiving career will continue without incident and you will look back and think about how lucky you were.

I do understand what your point is. People who are skiing/boarding ARE probably aware of the potential for other skiers/boarders to come from behind at greater speed than them. (At least, when I'm boarding, I am aware of that danger)... However, they aren't expecting someone to come from above.

Personally, I assume that they are in their own little world and are not expecting anyone to overtake them. To take it to a further level, I actually assume people are going to TRY to hit me. It's the same mindset that I have while driving fast in traffic.

There's definitely a balance that should be struck between maintaining a reasonable level of safety while still having fun. Who's to say what that is. With a sport so new like this, there aren't many metrics to draw from. We can however, look at Europe for answers.

Speed riding is quite common in Europe and I've seen plenty of video where speed riding is mixed with traditional snow sports without issue. I honestly don't have any information on speed riding related accidents, so that might be a poor example. However, if it is tolerated there as much as it seems it is, then it might not be as exceedingly dangerous as it might seem on first glance. I'm not saying it's not dangerous, because it IS. However, bombing down a slope at 50mph on JUST a snowboard is very dangerous too, and it IS commonly allowed. Who's to say which is more dangerous?! Without data it's impossible to tell.

I read a story just last week where a guy was bombing down a slope and killed a kid instantly and hospitalized the kid's mom. Accidents do happen. Should we make skiing/boarding illegal? MANY activities that people see others do, they just automatically assume are safe; Driving, Scuba Diving, crossing the street. It's only when someone does something out of the ordinary, like speed riding in a country (the US) where it's not been popularized that people are like, "OH, Stop that guy he's Sooo dangerous". it doesn't matter if the guy is ACTUALLY creating a higher level of risk.

This is because most people are TERRIBLE at assessing risk! Almost everyone drives everyday, and everyone they know drives too, so it "feels" safe. Which is why people are flying down the freeway at 75mph drinking their mocha late, talking on the phone, texting, putting makeup on, hell I saw some chick reading a fucking book on the way into San Fransisco one day. Yet they look at skydivers and think we're fucking crazy. Just like you might be looking at me and think I'm fucking crazy. Who's right? What's more dangerous? Do you REALLY know? Or is it just a "feeling" you have?

Gravity Waits for No One.

[Calvin19 0]

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Speed-Flying / Ground-Launching (At about 50 flights and 150 Skydive Landings)

Low experience.
Multiple camera angles.
Buzzing friends / spectators for video.
Poor launch technique.
Skydiving gear.


Dude, you're really pushing it. On top of that, you're giving poor advice. Don't.

yep

-SPACE-

[Calvin19 0]

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most people are TERRIBLE at assessing risk!

-SPACE-

[Calvin19 0]

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if anyone is stupid enough (and yes, I know they exist) to read this thread and automatically decide to go out and repeat what I did without any additional research or training, then they deserve to die.

While I somewhat agree with you here, I am going to go out on a limb and assume you did exactly that.

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Let's see you try to launch on a snowboard, in similar conditions, and with no assistance and see how well you do.

I'm pretty sure it's obvious you have mad skills. Collapsing the slider before launch was an especially nice touch.

I have read your posts, I think you should take a few steps back while giving advice. I have no problem with what you are doing, being the first person ever to speedride Heavenly or whatever, but you should probably avoid giving noobs your pennies.

"ground launching" is pretty dangerous. A few idiot skydivers as well as a few of the BEST (original) speed glider pilots in world have died doing it.

I have launched quite a few wings, and in most cases, skydiving gear is dangerous and unsafe in comparison. What is worse is the skydiver habits that go with it. Skydiving parachutes have their place, and if you prefer the way those wings fly then they are ok. One needs to understand that a similarly sized purpose built speed glider in almost all cases is more capable in almost all categories, especially in reliability and safety.

I don't think you are endangering anyone, keep flying your hills.

[Rigless 0]

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"ground launching" is pretty dangerous. A few idiot skydivers as well as a few of the BEST (original) speed glider pilots in world have died doing it.

Anyone can die, from the worst, to the best..

Does this mean people cannot / don't have to try this?

Besides, try to remember all the shit that you all did that was wrong at the time and you still felt it was awesome and didn't care, it's just that most people tend to keep those things to themselves..

"All limits are self imposed." Icarus

[PWScottIV 0]

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While I somewhat agree with you here, I am going to go out on a limb and assume you did exactly that.

No, I actually DO have some (not much, but some) formal paragliding training. And while I know experience is a hundred times more valuable than anything in a book, I've also read Brian Germain's "The Parachute and it's Pilot" and Denis Pagen's "The Art of Paragliding", both cover to cover.

In addition to that I started by asking other, more experienced skydivers/base jumpers at my dropzone for their recommendations and advice. I began flying at "safer" locations and am currently trying to progress further into high-speed canopy piloting. I know you're a very experienced base jumper and canopy pilot... But one day, long ago, you were not... In your progression to where you are today, did you always do exactly as everyone told you? Did you follow a strict set of guidelines at all times? I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

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I have read your posts, I think you should take a few steps back while giving advice. I have no problem with what you are doing, being the first person ever to speedride Heavenly or whatever, but you should probably avoid giving noobs your pennies.

I am NOT giving advice. I'm just relaying my experiences to others... How exactly does that constitute as advice? If someone told you they played Russian roulette and survived, would you just go off and play a few rounds?

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"ground launching" is pretty dangerous. A few idiot skydivers as well as a few of the BEST (original) speed glider pilots in world have died doing it.

I'm aware of the risks... In some ways it can be more dangerous than base jumping. And that's not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of base jumpers I know.

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I have launched quite a few wings, and in most cases, skydiving gear is dangerous and unsafe. What is worse is the skydiver habits that go with it.

I know my canopy has less margin for error than say a speed wing would have. That said, I'm not bombing down the Eiger yet either. Funds permitting, I do plan on purchasing a speed wing here soon.

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I don't think you are endangering anyone, keep flying your hills.

Yeah, I don't feel I'm doing anything that crazy at this point either. I also understand that I could possibly die. Which is something that could happen in a thousand different circumstances, like when I was night rock climbing last weekend, or when I did a solo night scuba dive last week. If you've lasted as long as you have in base and airsports, you're obviously extremely well attuned to risk assessment... Unlike the majority of people out there. We accept (and respect) the inherent risks in the activities we choose to participate in because we understand the benefits of doing so.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[Calvin19 0]

There were a few accidents that ended in a fatality, and a few that ended in severe injuries that almost certainly could have been avoided with proper equipment. It's kinda like BASE jumping with skydiving gear, sure it works, but there is WAY better and safer stuff out there.

Even if you are not giving advice, I would rather not see skydiving gear in "ground launching" videos on youtube, just like I would rather not see skydiving gear used in BASE jumping videos, if for nothing more than to discourage the widespread misconception that a skydive canopy is just as safe as a speed glider.

The use of a skydiving canopy in perfect strong headwind conditions is great, the problem is when people hike a place to find that there is less wind than normal, and still try to launch less capable gear. I have had a couple people call me from the hospital after crashing a skydive canopy ground launching from that exact scenario, asking to buy a speed wing.

As for "more dangerous than BASE jumping", I strongly believe there is no way to quantify danger in these kind of sports. The best attitude, experience,luck, and proper gear will win.

Accept and understand the risks, the personal responsibility, and if possible, Stay safe,

-SPACE-

[LetsGoOutside 0]

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The use of a skydiving canopy in perfect strong headwind conditions is great, the problem is when people hike a place to find that there is less wind than normal, and still try to launch less capable gear.

+1. Two fatalities just came to mind.

[virgin-burner 1]

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As for "more dangerous than BASE jumping", I strongly believe there is no way to quantify danger in these kind of sports. The best attitude, experience,luck, and proper gear will win.

even that is no guarantee..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda