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mbondvegas

What's the latest on First Swoop Canopies?

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Sabre 2? Safire2? Pilot? Other?

I have flown the ones above and loved them all. I like the pilot for general use, but I understand it has a short recovery arc that is not great for swooping. The Sabre 2 seemed "swoopy" but darn it if those openings didn't bug me. The Safire was not very memorable...maybe somewhere between the pilot and sabre2?

I will demo again before droping the $, but I want some other peoples thoughts...what about other canopies? Nitro? Rage? etc?

Don't tell me to use the search or to not swoop,etc. I'm just interested in what the current thoughts are on what would be a reasonable canopy to learn basic swoop skills on.

Yes, I know the one you currently own is a good one to start with...

But what if you are were buying a new canopy and eventually want to learn to swoop.

I guess I am asking...what moderately conservative canopy has a reasonably long recovery arc and moderate to lighter front riser pressure?
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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

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I wouldn't get a pilot for swooping purposes, and a safire 2 may or may not work for you. The sabre2 is really good for learning to swoop. If you liked it except for the openings, you might give the fusion a try. Or maybe just another sabre2, as there's some differences between sabre2s in how they open.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I wouldn't get a pilot for swooping purposes, and a safire 2 may or may not work for you. The sabre2 is really good for learning to swoop. If you liked it except for the openings, you might give the fusion a try. Or maybe just another sabre2, as there's some differences between sabre2s in how they open.


..
+1

I think a sabre2 opens very nice...You can use rear riser or/and harnass to keep it on heading during opening.

Generally speaking...if you want a fun parachute....you'll get fun openings ;)....just live with it and learn to fly your openings..

_______________________________________

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Through the field of available canopies, in my opinion the Sabre2 is still the best all around Advanced Beginner to Intermediate Swooper canopy available.

Referecing this (post) thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4034098;search_string=recovery%20arc;#4034098



Here is what I wrote on long/short recovery arcs last month:

Quote

Now, why have people pushed for longer recovery arcs for swoop progressions? Primarily it has to do with the "next step" in what your canopy choice would be. For instance, a modern progression would have someone on a Sabre2, then a Katana and then a Velocity. Those canopies step into each other in terms of progression and skill advancement. The recovery arcs continually get longer and longer as the progression advances.

The other thought is that the pilot will be turning further away from the ground. There are two thoughts for that idea. Firstly, that the longer the canopy is in a dive, the more power and speed that canopy can generate. The second thought is that the higher altitude that a canopy pilot initiates a turn at, the more "room for error" that canopy pilot has.

The "altitude for safety" thought is very misleading. Lets say that if you do a 90 degree turn on Canopy A that it takes X feet to recover. Lets say on Canopy B it takes Y feet to recover. The difference in the height and length of the recovery arc are independent to each canopy. Just because X is greater than Y doesn't mean that you can make the canopy come out of a dive quicker with Y feet.

In other words, if you are doing a 90 on either canopy, with a long or a short recovery arc, you will need what ever distance that canopy needs to recover to recover. If a canopy has a longer recovery arc, then it will typically take longer to recover, even with pilot input.

In swooping, you the pilot have to create a margin of error, not the canopy!

Where the differentiation between the canopies really comes down to bigger turns. Where as when I was doing 270s on a big (but loaded) Stiletto, I was turning a bit under 400ft(!) On my Velo, I'm around 800ft on the same turn. If I was 30ft high or low on the Stiletto, then it was a big deal and there wasn't much time or altitude to adjust either way. On the Velo the time and distance is greater, the window for opportunity is greater, but there is still a significant point of no return, in which I will hit the pond.

Now back that up to 90 degree turns. Both canopies will have very short "time in turn" and "time in dives." Both canopies will have a very small window of opportunity and a very similarly placed point of no return. That is why a the recovery arc of the different classes of canopies are of marginal value for a small turn.

As new classes of canopies are produced to meet the needs and desires of modern canopy pilots, the older classes have been cast aside by many, when in fact they could still provide a safe, fun and stable platform to learn to fly a canopy on. Especially when weighed against the thought that those canopies will be flown in larger sizes at lighter wingloadings.

Large sizes at lighter wingloadings brings in a whole new discussion about speeds, drag and that canopy's terminal velocity in a dive.

Summary:

The intermediate class of canopy (Sabre2/Safire2) gives most beginning to advanced canopy pilots the most efficient and stable platform to learn on. Progressing through the sizes and wingloadings from 1:1 up to about 1.7:1 canopy pilots will find their ability to grow and learn won't really out pace the canopy's ability. When a canopy pilot has developed a skill set starting to progress past 1.7:1 and up to a 270 degree turn, then they are getting to the point where the next class of canopy will give them the ability to increase their time in turn and dive. The next class of canopy will not necessarily increase their margin of safety since the gained altitude for turn is lost in the dive, speed and time.


--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Thanks guys for the helpful comments.

I'm going to demo another Sabre2 and Safire2. The last time I demo'd was a long time ago.

For anyone who has enough experience to know...what is the key differences between the Safire 2 and Sabre 2
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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

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Thanks guys for the helpful comments.

I'm going to demo another Sabre2 and Safire2. The last time I demo'd was a long time ago.

For anyone who has enough experience to know...what is the key differences between the Safire 2 and Sabre 2



Try this one. This is the topic you want to read.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4031321;page=unread#unread
Blue skies!

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