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danielcroft

Non x-braced elliptical canopies

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I'm not saying my reasoning is the best in the world but it's not as bad as "I'll be cooler if I have an elliptical canopy", is it? :$



You're cooler when you toss a bomber swoop, hitting the same gates and going past the punks who downsized too fast too soon on your "uncool" canopy!


Not to undermine your advice, but wouldn't a canopy with a longer recovery arc be a safer option for learning to swoop?

Assuming, of course, that the pilot has enough sense to do some drills up high to work out what likely altitude loss in a turn is likely to be on a new wing before bringing it down low. "Performance enveloping" was discussed recently in a thread and although I knew what was meant, I had never heard that term before. Perhaps that is something that senior jumpers should be pushing more when us new guys change wing.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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I'm not saying my reasoning is the best in the world but it's not as bad as "I'll be cooler if I have an elliptical canopy", is it? :$



You're cooler when you toss a bomber swoop, hitting the same gates and going past the punks who downsized too fast too soon on your "uncool" canopy!


Not to undermine your advice, but wouldn't a canopy with a longer recovery arc be a safer option for learning to swoop?

Assuming, of course, that the pilot has enough sense to do some drills up high to work out what likely altitude loss in a turn is likely to be on a new wing before bringing it down low. "Performance enveloping" was discussed recently in a thread and although I knew what was meant, I had never heard that term before. Perhaps that is something that senior jumpers should be pushing more when us new guys change wing.


Lets break down learning to swoop and the recovery arc ideas that get talked about quite a bit on here.

For the discussion I like to break down the canopies into groups as such:

Short recovery arcs:
Stiletto
Nitro(n)
Sabre(1)
Pilot


Medium recovery arcs:
Sabre2
Safire2

Long recovery arcs:
Katana
Crossfire2

Extreme:
Velocity
Comp Velocity
VX
JVX


Now, why have people pushed for longer recovery arcs for swoop progressions? Primarily it has to do with the "next step" in what your canopy choice would be. For instance, a modern progression would have someone on a Sabre2, then a Katana and then a Velocity. Those canopies step into each other in terms of progression and skill advancement. The recovery arcs continually get longer and longer as the progression advances.

The other thought is that the pilot will be turning further away from the ground. There are two thoughts for that idea. Firstly, that the longer the canopy is in a dive, the more power and speed that canopy can generate. The second thought is that the higher altitude that a canopy pilot initiates a turn at, the more "room for error" that canopy pilot has.

The "altitude for safety" thought is very misleading. Lets say that if you do a 90 degree turn on Canopy A that it takes X feet to recover. Lets say on Canopy B it takes Y feet to recover. The difference in the height and length of the recovery arc are independent to each canopy. Just because X is greater than Y doesn't mean that you can make the canopy come out of a dive quicker with Y feet.

In other words, if you are doing a 90 on either canopy, with a long or a short recovery arc, you will need what ever distance that canopy needs to recover to recover. If a canopy has a longer recovery arc, then it will typically take longer to recover, even with pilot input.

In swooping, you the pilot have to create a margin of error, not the canopy!

Where the differentiation between the canopies really comes down to bigger turns. Where as when I was doing 270s on a big (but loaded) Stiletto, I was turning a bit under 400ft(!) On my Velo, I'm around 800ft on the same turn. If I was 30ft high or low on the Stiletto, then it was a big deal and there wasn't much time or altitude to adjust either way. On the Velo the time and distance is greater, the window for opportunity is greater, but there is still a significant point of no return, in which I will hit the pond.

Now back that up to 90 degree turns. Both canopies will have very short "time in turn" and "time in dives." Both canopies will have a very small window of opportunity and a very similarly placed point of no return. That is why a the recovery arc of the different classes of canopies are of marginal value for a small turn.

As new classes of canopies are produced to meet the needs and desires of modern canopy pilots, the older classes have been cast aside by many, when in fact they could still provide a safe, fun and stable platform to learn to fly a canopy on. Especially when weighed against the thought that those canopies will be flown in larger sizes at lighter wingloadings.

Large sizes at lighter wingloadings brings in a whole new discussion about speeds, drag and that canopy's terminal velocity in a dive.

Summary:

The intermediate class of canopy (Sabre2/Safire2) gives most beginning to advanced canopy pilots the most efficient and stable platform to learn on. Progressing through the sizes and wingloadings from 1:1 up to about 1.7:1 canopy pilots will find their ability to grow and learn won't really out pace the canopy's ability. When a canopy pilot has developed a skill set starting to progress past 1.7:1 and up to a 270 degree turn, then they are getting to the point where the next class of canopy will give them the ability to increase their time in turn and dive. The next class of canopy will not necessarily increase their margin of safety since the gained altitude for turn is lost in the dive, speed and time.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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but wouldn't a canopy with a longer recovery arc be a safer option for learning to swoop?



Not necessarily. Longer arc means more time to look at the 'picture' BUT it also means more speed AND longer to level out if you're low.

So, if you don't identify it early enough (which is what most pilots do), you'll hit harder.

I'm not saying either are better, or worse, just that they have different pro's/cons.

Ultimately, it's best to learn under an appropriately sized wing and take incremental steps so you can build the right pictures.


edit: Ninja'ed by Dave :)
Performance Designs Factory Team

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edit: Ninja'ed by Dave :)



You've got to watch it buddy, I'm still waiting for my velo to come back from a reline and the weather sucks, so I'm stuck dreaming of swoops for now!:D
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Long recovery arcs:
Katana
Crossfire2

Extreme:
Velocity
Comp Velocity
VX
JVX



Lots of good advice there Im sure.
But Im suprised you categorise XF2 together with katana and Velos together with VX´s

The way I have understood it is that the mentioned PD canopies in general have longer recovery arcs than the icarus comparables.

Dont you think a Katana dives more than a VX and therefore the katana should at least be in the same class with VX´s if not higher ?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2359351#2359351

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I've been going back and forth on that one for a bit in my mind at least. They're both close, and I was getting the VX to dive less than a Katana, but a lot of other people have different experiences with the same two canopies. Those classes I listed are more of a general guide than a bible. Something to help newer canopy pilots wrap their heads around the other points I was covering in that post. For instance, a VX 79 will typically dive longer than a Katana 150, both loaded at typical wingloadings for their sizes and we're talking about general canopy progressions with people jumping canopies in typical sizes and wingloadings.

If it would make you feel better, though, you can flip those two canopies.;)

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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If it would make you feel better, though, you can flip those two canopies.;)




Ok, I will :P

Medium:
Crossfire2

Medium/Long:
VX
JVX

Longer:
Katana
NEOS

Extreme:
Velo
Comp Velo

Now Im happy.B|

The reason why I thought this bible is valuable to the OP is that IMO it is good to know that the icarus family canopies generally forces one to use a bit different technique than the PD family. (with the exemption of the NEOS, which I felt was trimmed rather steep for an icarus canopy and perhaps flies more similar to the PD wings)

Im not trying to undermine your experience. Rather trying to discuss this based on my limited experience. :)

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edit: Ninja'ed by Dave :)



You've got to watch it buddy, I'm still waiting for my velo to come back from a reline and the weather sucks, so I'm stuck dreaming of swoops for now!:D


Considering it's been almost 2 months since I last jumped (wtf happened to winter in GA???), I'm right there dreaming of swoops too. I'm making a trip to FL since I can't get any decent weather action here.....
Performance Designs Factory Team

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Im not trying to undermine your experience. Rather trying to discuss this based on my limited experience. :)



I'm a geek when it comes to these sorts of discussions and not only do I love the opportunity to discuss these nuances with people, I enjoy the opportunity to learn new things from different people. To the point that Ian broke his leg this year so he could skip nationals and refrain from fun technical swooping discussions over sushi with me!:P

The point is I will not get upset with a differing viewpoint, I just like to know why/how someone has that viewpoint. It is an opportunity for me to learn new things.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I'm not saying my reasoning is the best in the world but it's not as bad as "I'll be cooler if I have an elliptical canopy", is it? :$



You're cooler when you toss a bomber swoop, hitting the same gates and going past the punks who downsized too fast too soon on your "uncool" canopy!


Normally I'm trying to stay away from posting outside "gear and rigging" part of the forum.The reason for that is that I have more reserve repacks and patches than jumps.But since I'm not gonna give any advice,I will make an exceptions and I will tell my opinion.
I think that in general 90+ % when somebody is changing his canopy size or model is about being cool.
Not trying to offend anyone. Over the years I've seen too many people who were flying canopies that they shouldn't. I'm sure that they are many jumpers with 6-7-800 jumps who are able to land a Velocity. But can they really take 100% of canopy like Sabre 2 or Safire2..???
In The Netherlands you need minimum 700 jumps to jump canopy like Katana or CF. The idea behind this rule is that somebody will spend at least 700 jumps surviving the game called Skydiving and with 700 jumps he will make a better decision if he is capable of flying this kind of wing. The majority of the "wanna be cool" skydivers start searching for KA or CF when they have about 600-650 jumps. Why? Because after 700 jumps they are allowed to jump it. Not because they are ready. (well,some of them are ready).
One of the most spectacular swoops I've seen was performed on Sabre 2 150 from jumper with 15 000 jumps.
I think that Performance Designs have to make a video called:"See what you can do with Sabre2,Pulse,Storm.....etc. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY IT"
And at the end I'm gonna post 2 videos.
The first one is on Sabre 2 and the second one is on Katana. Enjoy;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU1tHOgdVag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1twVq0aIJc
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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I think that Performance Designs have to make a video called:"See what you can do with Sabre2,Pulse,Storm.....etc. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY IT"



That is an OUTSTANDING idea!

Ian?

Maybe some video of a "normal" sized Sabre2 loaded in the typical performance envelope range with some good inside and outside video? Maybe toss out some ZA runs and just some good old fashion beer line swoops to show the capabilities?
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Dave and Ian

Thanks to you both for your explanations. I guess there is no one rule (like most of skydiving) where X is safer than Y.

I posted what I did above from my own perspective which is that I would rather make my turn nearer the top of the performance envelope and "force" it down on double fronts than reduce my margin for error and have to dig out. For me this means I like a divier canopy. I recognize that this may not be the most efficient way to make the turn, but I am currently working on safety rather than wringing every drop of performance out of my swoop. This may be due to a low turn (90) I made on my Sabre2 and the resulting "Oh shit" and painful bounce. Or maybe I am just a pussy!

Either way, I recognize that not everyone approaches learning to swoop in the same way. Hell, I may even be wrong - It could happen!! Your answers were both very informative and I too like the discussion of the nuances of canopy flight.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Interesting discussion, thanks for posting everyone.

I've spent the several days since I posted this thread reading old threads on DZ.com (not the first time I've done this) and talking to friends who have many more jumps than I do. I've found several threads comparing the canopies I mentioned as well as several other canopies.

I will say that, while I was of the same opinion of DocPop on the "longer recovery is safer" idea, I don't feel like I'm unsafe on the Sabre 2. I also don't finish my 90s or 180s with double fronts. I did at first but have switched to what I believe is a more "standard" (or maybe "suggested"?) method (as I was advised by my canopy mentor and others) which is brakes to recovery to double to offset and landing. I'm working on getting the initiation of my dive timed properly with the recovery from brakes and also finishing the turn with harness. I also know that pattern & setup is probably one of the most important skills I need to get down and am working on that too. I have a *a lot* to learn about swooping and (canopy) flight in general.

I don't think flying an elliptical canopy will make me a better pilot, not by a long shot. What I'm interested in is how a canopy feels to fly. To me, when I'm diving my Sabre 2, it feels like I'm fighting the canopy. I don't mean build up of riser pressure as speed increases, I mean just generally. After flying the KA135, and feeling how good it felt when in a dive - very stable, like it was "born" to dive (which, it kinda was) - I realized what I could gain was a better feeling with the canopy.

I'm starting to research what canopies I could consider in my effort to achieve a better, more controlled feeling when diving the canopy which is why I posted the thread. The discussion about recovery arc as it relates to safety is an interesting and relevant discussion especially considering the two canopies at the top of my list (and it seems, many people's lists). The XF2, according to some, has only a slightly longer arc than the Sabre 2, the KA has (again, according to some people) an arc that is similar to a Velo but about as long as you can get on a non cross braced canopy (maybe the Mamba is up there - again opinion I've read).

I'm not going to be getting a canopy with a shorter arc than what I have. In fact, if at some point I decide to downsize, I can't stay on a Sabre 2 because I'd be above max loading on a 107. So, I feel like the issue of recovery arc on a canopy (in terms of swooping) is kinda moot to some extent in that I'll just need to learn what's safe and right on whatever I fly. I'm actually more concerned about recovery arc in the context of emergency avoidance and off landings than I am with swooping. That's part of the reason I'm leaning more towards the XF2 but whether or not the KA has a wide control range (which it does) or not, will that be a good canopy to have as my only canopy (one rig here :( ) and how will the flight characteristics of the each of these canopies play out beyond HP landings in every day jumping.

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I've seen comments saying that the mamba is pretty unstable on opening?

I have a few jumps on a Mamba - a 117 I think - and while it was long enough ago that I don't remember the exact front riser pressure or recovery arc, I do know I loved it. The openings definitely felt better, more stable, predictable and on heading (or at least not as likely to spin up), than those of a Katana 120 I also jumped, and the Mamba also flew stable or I would remember (I'm a big fan of stability in flight. steer clear of the Springo).

The Sensei 111 and 101 had absurd front riser pressure (though they reacted extremely well to harness input) and actually rather a short recovery arc (well, relatively, for the class it's in). Not my flying style, worth a day's demo if you can find one and you'll know soon enough whether or not it's what you want.

I finally decided on a Velo that felt like an extension of me, which is a very personal feeling. Also, while I have plenty to learn on that Velo (of course!), I started flying crossbraced after over 1600 jumps, which makes it a bit of a different exercise than what you are or should be doing.

Looking back at some canopies I flew, I also have fond memories of the Vision, which felt basically like what the Stiletto should (well, could) have been: very much a pilot's canopy with a long recovery arc.

Seeing how I have exactly *one* jump on a Sabre 2 (a 150), I really can't compare it. But a Vision might have been a good choice for you at this time if it weren't for the fact it seems to be out of production, and a Mamba has some qualities that make it a real alternative to a Katana. However, consensus seems to be you ought to stay at the Sabre 2 for now, so all of the above might not be applicable in this case.

While I am a big fan of PD canopies (I own I think four), I think Aerodyne have some good offerings as well, even if not for accomplished competitive swoopers, then for the rest of us.
Johan.
I am. I think.

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Best read ever.

But I too wanna say that Katana dives more than VX or FX or Xaos.

Going from Katana 120 to Fx99 was the weirdest transtion ever.
I had to move my 270 from 750-700 to 650-600ft.

and that is what i meant by once you fly Katana, you'll probably stuck with flying Velo. First couple jumps my brain would not allow me to turn lower with smaller canopy.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I think that Performance Designs have to make a video called:"See what you can do with Sabre2,Pulse,Storm.....etc. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY IT"



That is an OUTSTANDING idea!

Ian?

Maybe some video of a "normal" sized Sabre2 loaded in the typical performance envelope range with some good inside and outside video? Maybe toss out some ZA runs and just some good old fashion beer line swoops to show the capabilities?


(correct me if I'm wrong here Bruno)
I seem to remember Bruno Brokken getting called out during a world record event, for turning more than 90o (which wasn't allowed) with his spectre. AFAIK the reasoning was: No I did not SEE him make his final turn, but he swooped so damn far he MUST have done more than 90o!

(of course, accusing a cameraman of not folowwing the lading pattern when his camera was rolling doesn't make that much sense...)

:ph34r:

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I'm surprised you found the Mamba to be stable. Was it at the same wingloading as the other canopy?
It's very sensitive to harness and in the wrong hands it is very unstable during and after opening until the brakes are off. Don't get me wrong, it's fine if you balance yourself under it correctly as you should. I guess the same could be said of any elliptical canopy but the Mamba seems to have a rep for spinning off heading openings and twitchyness.
Personally I love the canopy because of the harness sensitiviy and the way it just keeps flying when you swoop. I see the openings as a negative aspect of the canopy simply because they can be interesting if your lazy at pull time it's worth it. I can't fault any other aspect of the canopy. I have heard some say it dives harder than a Katana and some say the Katanna dives harder. I guess thats maybe the result of different techniques? But thats another discussion i think.

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Here's an update (sorry for the zombie thread):

I've done one jump on a KA120 @ 1.54 - clear an pull out the door, open @ ~12k.

To me, the KA120 felt like more than one step "down". People say that going semi-elliptical -> elliptical is equivalent to 1 downsize. I think the KA120 was more like 2 steps down. The dive that this canopy got purely from harness input was extreme to say the least. I was diving harder and faster on the KA with only harness input than I was on the SA2 on harness and fronts. It's an amazing canopy but while I really enjoyed playing with it on that jump, I don't think it's right for me right now. I'm sure I could deal with it but I want to spend time concentrating on more than just my canopy. For the record, the opening was good, didn't have any issues with the canopy other than that I'm not ready for it. Obviously I'd need more than one jump to get a good idea of the canopy (which I might later in the year), these are based on first impressions. Compared to the KA135, the KA120 felt like a different animal.

I've done 10 jumps on a XF2 119 @ 1.55 - first jump deploy @ ~7, second clear & pull open @ ~12k.

The Crossfire 2 119 feels a lot more like what I was expecting from the side step to a fully elliptical canopy. It definitely demands more of your attention in flight and I needed to re-learn my flare as I haven't jumped anything but Sabre 2s for like 300 jumps. I was lucky enough to have some awesome friends on the DZ to video my landings and point out to me how much I sucked at flaring on the XF2. :D Have only been flying it straight in so far. I don't consider myself ready to induce speed until I'm doing the basics right (this is a general rule for me: after winter, downsize, new canopy, etc). Although, having said that, I've been flying my pattern with harness which is induced speed so... :$

I liked that the XF2 allows me to fly more conservatively but that I can also get on the harness and get some serious dives out of the canopy (high pull remember). I feel that, given the choice of landing either canopy out, I'd certainly go for the XF2 which is why I've been putting a few jumps on it. I guess that's what people mean when they talk about range. Yes, the KA can be flown back from a long spot and I'm positive that someone with a lot of experience would be able to park their canopy wherever they wanted to but until I gain that experience I don't think it's the right choice for me.

The rears on the XF2 were totally awesome. I have a friend who flies a Pilot 188 @ ~1.2 (IIRC) who I did a jump with. When I hit my rears on the way back (spot was a bit meh) he said that he thought I was actually climbing. :D

I will say that I prefer the openings on the KA as weird as that sounds. My tune would probably change if I had a spinner though. I've grown to like the PD "positive" openings over the Icarus "soft" openings.

I think, if I wanted to fly a KA, I'd be better off flying the KA135 for a while to get a good feel for the way the KA flies and then look at downsizing to the KA120 later. To me, the XF2 119 feels really good, nice solid canopy, fun to fly. Luckily, my friend who owns the XF2 has said I can borrow it for a while so I can get a really good idea about the canopy in varying conditions. I think my face said it all when I got down from jumping the KA120 and the XF2 119 - was very serious after the KA and smiling and happy after the XF2 - easy choice. ;)

What's next? I have a demo Skylark Odyssey to try out. I still need to try my friends Samurai 120 and my wife's ST120. I'm not sure I'll go as far as getting the Mamba demo, if it's meant to be like the KA in terms of recovery arc & dive then probably not even worth it. Fortunately, when the weather isn't sucking, I've been putting a lot of jumps in and staying nice and current. :)

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It was WAY back in the thread but you said the Samurai won't fit in the container? I am less expereinced but I am starting to fly a Samurai. On BigAirSports it says it's only 5% more pack volume because of the airlocks, and it should fit in containers for similar sizes with just lengthening the closing loop a tad. At least that's what BG said I guess. I found it accurate. I won't get into it's characteristics becuase I only have like 8 jumps on it and still feeling it out, but I like mine :) Of course every pilot likes HIS ride. Couldn't hurt to try it though. :P

I am an asshole, but I am honest

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Oh yeah and the airlock issue is debatable if it is actually safer, but I have noticed the canopy doesn't do that accordian breathing thing my Stiletto did as much, and feels better to me. Might be a mental thing though lol. It's funny to see it on the ground still inflated like an air mattress!
I am an asshole, but I am honest

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for sure, like ian said, the recovery arc is only one factor among many others.
but, tried to demo a hurricane.
i was personaly very surprised by the recovery arc of a 120 at 1.46, and the 105 at 1.76.
just a bigger packing volume and strong opening.
niques tout, chies d'dans...

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Good call. At your experience the KA is definitely a handful. Not a big fan of a lot of Icarus stuff (just not my flying style), I've really enjoyed the Crossfire 2 (~30 jumps and several foot launched flights). It's a good step between the Sabre2 and Katana.

BTW, I love the openings on my KA97. I fly it with a wingsuit and it's never spun up in the few times I had line twists. After switching to HMA (had one of the earlier KAs with microline) the rotation in my openings are gone (outside what I might induce myself from body position).

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Update to the zombie thread.

I've now done 16 jumps on a Skylark Odyssey 115, 1 jump on a Samurai 120 and another 6 jumps on the Crossfire 2 119 (had to give the Odyssey demo back).

The Odyssey was pretty interesting; to me it felt very much like what I imagine PD would do if they made a Crossfire competitor. Faster openings, shorter control range (toggles) and steeper trim. The feeling that the OD was trimmed steeper may have been due to the size difference but we're talking .05 here so I'm not sure that'd account for it. edit: The slider was the size of a small planet too, I'd be keen to get a removable slider if I were getting this (or another new) canopy.

The canopy itself was odd in a couple of ways, firstly there was loads of excess brake line, haven't seen that much before but tail deflection happened at approximately the same place (just above shoulder height) as the XF2 so I'm not sure what the deal was there, maybe set up for longer risers or something? The risers that it came on weren't the best either but I'm kind of coming to expect that from demo canopies. There are also a couple of line attachment points that I found odd when packing. Most of all, without the labels on the stabilizer, you'd probably be hard pressed to tell it from a Crossfire 2. I'm sure people who were really keen and knew what the internal porting looked like would probably be able to work it out pretty quickly but at least on a superficial level, it definitely bares a striking resemblance to the XF2.

Enough of that, how'd it fly? Well, I'd say it really was half way between the KA120 and the XF2 119 which is saying something (about the KA really) because it's a 115. I had to land it in some fairly iffy winds, not "I shouldn't be jumping but I have to jump this demo" bad but not optimal and didn't really have any issues with it. Still flying a standard pattern on all these demos so I can't really give anyone serious swoop related feedback. I can say that I was pretty accurate with it after the first few jumps (landed off once too because I'm a moron but had no trouble putting it down). I think the riser pressure was lower than the XF2 and it was certainly more agressive than the XF2 but I didn't feel that it was as agressive as the KA120. Coming back from a long spot in high wind was deep brakes and I definitely drifted well. Canopy felt a little unstable in the lower end of the toggle stroke, especially compared to the XF2. I could put my (giant monkey) arms all the way down on the XF2 and not stall it, on the OD it was just below my hips where it started to feel pretty uneasy. I think I did 3 or 4 clear and pulls from altitude on the Odyssey, one of which was with friends loaded 1.6 and up on KAs and VEs. I didn't really have any trouble staying with them but wasn't keen on trying anything fancy for obvious reasons.

The Odyssey kind of came out of left field but I'm glad I tried it because, out of all the canopies I've flown so far, it's my favorite.

I also put a jump on a Samurai 120 which I quite enjoyed too. Nice canopy, felt quite nice and I was comfortable on it right away. I can't say too much about it though as I've only put one jump on it. The jump wasn't exactly ideal either - big tracking jump and the rig it was in doesn't have an AAD or an RSL. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say so I stayed nice an high and out of everyone's way. Opened pretty high too and played around a bit. I'd read that the Sam has a shorter recovery than the KA but longer than the XF2 - I didn't really get a good feeling due to the jump I did. I'm planning on doing a few more, if only to play around with the canopy.

I set up my camera to record openings a couple of times if people are interested, I don't think it necessarily says a lot about the canopy but it is certainly fun to watch the craziness of an opening frame by frame. :)

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Arise zombie thread!

I've been continuing to jump the Odyssey 115 and have another 20 or so jumps on it.

On the weekend I demoed a Katana 120 and put 13 jumps on it. I found it to be a lot less dramatic than my first impressions suggested. With 50 or so jumps on elliptical canopies, I guess my perspective has changed a bit. I'd definitely say that the KA120 is a really big step from the S2 120 and that it flies similarly to the OD 115. The KA openings are really nice, only issues I had were a couple of brake fires which aren't really a function of the canopy anyway. They were really only half brake fires (top of toggle popped from keeper) and could correct most of the turn with harness. I reported this to PD. The KA is definitely strong on toggles whereas the XF2 has amazing rears. The riser pressure on the KA is also the opposite from the XF2 - super light fronts and heavy rears. The flare on the KA is pretty awesome too, a lot of power, very deep the flare is too. I was doing normal skydives during the demo so I wasn't swooping the KA for the most part. I tried a couple of double fronts and a couple of 90s, nothing fancy, just nice calm carves. I've seen how a KA can be swooped when flown by some amazing pilots so I know I wasn't anywhere near its potential. Over all I'd say that the KA is a great canopy and at that loading (1.54 for people keeping score) was about the same as the OD115 (@ 1.6) in terms of how the recovery felt when I was flying it (i.e. not very hard).

These three canopies make for an interesting comparison in that they all have strengths that I enjoyed (KA flare is awesome, dive is amazing but I only scratched the surface, XF2 rear risers are awesome and amazing range) but the OD was really a nice middle ground and was the one I was least happy to give back when the time came (luckily they gave it back to me for a while). I'll probably put a few more jumps on my friend's Sam 120 because my first impressions were good but I'd like to get a better idea about the canopy.

I've already ordered an Odyssey 115 so the KA demo was really just to get a better idea about the canopy rather than basing my opinions on a single jump.

I also did a couple of jumps on an OM126 (Optimum Main - you learn something new every day!) - talk about an amazing canopy, quick but soft openings (made me laugh both times) and an incredible flare. I was just amazed at how it flew - deep control range and very solid - kept ranting about it and trying to get people to demo theirs (if they had one) and fly it because it was just fun. I'm very happy to have one in my rig.

/zombie thread

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