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jcbfly

Is the Stiletto obsolete?

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And I Have at least 1000 jumps on both.

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Most jumpers that (think they) want a stiletto are wannabe swoopers. For that purpose, the stiletto pretty much sucks and there are way better options for that these days (sabre 2 for instance). A stiletto is fun to fly though, if you don't wingsuit and don't swoop, why not get one?



A Sabre 2 is in no way close to the caliber of a stiletto :S



True: a sabre 2 is a much BETTER swoop canopy than the stiletto.

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Thanks for the advice, there's no way I'm even thinking about trying a velo. Not even a consideration. My next step will be to an elliptical canopy some time next year, either a KA or a XF2 unless something I like flying more comes along (I'm not sure what other canopies are in that group, Samurai?). Once I've had one of those for a while I'll probably downsize and stay with the same canopy. I'm in no rush to be on x-braced canopies.

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That's not correct at all. The short recovey arc was not a design decision, it was a design by-product. The high apsect ratio and eliptical planform were design decisions, and both of those lead to high efficiency and creating a lot of lift, which leads to short recovry arcs.



As usual, most everything your saying is right on, but I think line trim may affect recovery arc as well, so it could have been designed in to some degree. I'd be curious what a stiletto with a steeper trimmed lineset would fly like. A snappy katana maybe?

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That's not correct at all. The short recovey arc was not a design decision, it was a design by-product. The high apsect ratio and eliptical planform were design decisions, and both of those lead to high efficiency and creating a lot of lift, which leads to short recovry arcs.



As usual, most everything your saying is right on, but I think line trim may affect recovery arc as well, so it could have been designed in to some degree. I'd be curious what a stiletto with a steeper trimmed lineset would fly like. A snappy katana maybe?



I've seen a tweaked lineset Stiletto fly, the lineset was significantly steepened. As to the exact measurements, that I don't know. I do know that it dove much harder and longer, sort of Crossfire-ish. That same Stiletto was later H-modded, then it was near Velo-style dive.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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He loved it, but he was more of a mad-scientist type and not a hard-core swooper. I haven't seen him in a few years and last I heard, he moved out of the country, so I don't know how to find him.[:/]
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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My impression of the Aerodyne Vision was rather favourable as "a better Stiletto than the Stiletto." Same playfulness in flight, but with a longer recovery arc.



I found those two things to be true, but I also got really wild openings on mine (I only put 150 jumps on it before going back to Pilots).

Before people say "fly an elliptical, expect elliptical openings" or "it's body position" I didn't have that experience with either of the Crossfires or even the Stiletto that I've borrowed for short periods. And because we're a curious lot, I have plenty of video of me pitching in perfect form, then getting flung all over the place as the canopy inflated.

It's a pity, because as you say it flew and landed brilliantly. It'll be interesting to see what Aerodyne replace it with!
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"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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No it isn't... very short recovery arc, non elliptical, was designed for novices and intermediate jumpers where as the stiletto was desgined for swoopers and expert canopy flyers

Absolutely wrong here. Sabre2 has a much longer recovery arc than a Stiletto. You can build up more speed in a slow front riser turn with the Sabre2 (assuming stock trim). The Stiletto is more *responsive* in pretty much every parameter, though.

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No it isn't... very short recovery arc, non elliptical, was designed for novices and intermediate jumpers where as the stiletto was desgined for swoopers and expert canopy flyers

Absolutely wrong here. Sabre2 has a much longer recovery arc than a Stiletto. You can build up more speed in a slow front riser turn with the Sabre2 (assuming stock trim). The Stiletto is more *responsive* in pretty much every parameter, though.



+1

If you modify his post to - "Sabre2 - partial elliptical, was designed for novices and intermediate jumpers whereas the Stiletto was designed for Expert canopy flyers" - you get closer to the truth - especially where he notes "flyers", not 'swoopers'

Stiletto is a more 'advanced skills' canopy than the Sabre2, but 'advanced skills' doesn't equal only swooping. That's a narrow view of performance. Canopies don't just land, they also fly. It seems about only half the people here are acknowledging that point. Also, the demands of professional swoopers has changed over the years - so has the design criteria of canopies that cater to these people.

I think the design space for high perf swooping has a very limited overlap with high performance aerodynamics and general usage. A race car that's designed to be used on most roads and longer races circuits certainly is built a LOT different than one designed solely for the quarter mile sprint. But neither one you'd let a novice drive without lessons and experience.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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