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Deisel

Canopy Comparison

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I'm thinking about getting a second rig (complete system). How do you determine the diffirences between canopies? Specifically - when deciding which type/brand/size, what's the difference and how do you know without having to demo each one?

Now of course I get the obvious differences between shit like a Navigator 220 and Velo 90 and I get that wing load plays a big part. But between like sized canopies, different manufacturers seem to make more or less the same product.

The numbers on charts don't mean squat to me. It's just white noise. So can anyone clear this up some? Thanks.

D
The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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http://www.parachute.nl/fileadmin/knvvlpa_upload/pdf/BVR_bijlage_B_versie_2010_juni.pdf

Here is a dutch list of mains and in which category's they fall. The higher the category, the more aggresive the canopy is...basically that translates to off heading openings...more dive in turns...less recovery...more fun :)...

katana/crossfire2 is category 4 (isn't listed)...

You're now in category two....if you want a more zippy parachute you could get a sabre2 (cat 3)...

read reviews on mains here in dz and talk to friends on your dz and demo a lot of canopies...

_______________________________________

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Beyond demo'ing the hell out of different canopies, things that might affect your decision could include customer support, dealers (say, location-wise) or where you are, the states or england or whatnot (I'm typing this before checking your profile to see)

Good places to start would be PD, Icarus, and Aerodyne.

Let us know what you're thinking!
Stay high pull low

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You have to narrow it down a little if you want any useful information. So far you've asked a question along the lines of, "Which would be a good car to buy? They all seem to be the same sort of thing, what do you guys think?"

Let's start with what you're currently jumping now, what you do with it, and what you think about it. Does your current selection seem to be 'lacking' in any areas?

What are you considering as a replacement, and what do you plan to do with it?

It's not hard to reccomend a canopy is you know the jumpers qualifications and intentions with the new wing.

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Right now I'm on a Silhoutte 190 and I'm 205lbs. WL about 1.2 or so. I fly a conservative pattern but would like to work some more high performance type stuff. Currently, I find myself making 90s around 150-100 ft to land where I want. I'd like to be able to land more accurately (inside the 20' circle). Not ready to swoop yet but I'd like a more responsive canopy.

I'm also planning to get into AFFI by next summer and would like ato have a second rig. Even doing coach jumps I have to hustle to make a load sometimes. I'd like the option of debriefing without having to pack at the same time :)
The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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One thing at a time...

This

Quote

I'd like to be able to land more accurately (inside the 20' circle).



Before this!

Quote

I'd like a more responsive canopy.



If you're doing turns low to land where you need to, then having a more aggressive (which is the same as 'responsive') canopy is going to be the opposite of helpful. Being in full control of your canopy means being in control of its next 30 seconds as well as its 'right now', which means foresight, which means a reliable pattern.

I am assuming that at 300 jumps you know this, but you're not going to be the only person reading the thread, so it's good to be clear.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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You are going to have to pack that parachute sooner or later...

You have to be real busy to justify having two rigs and if you want to get good at flying your canopy, you need to jump that canopy and not switch back and forth.

Save your bucks and keep jumping what you have. Don't feel bad about not being able to land in a 20' circle. Most skydivers can't.

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You are going to have to pack that parachute sooner or later...

You have to be real busy to justify having two rigs and if you want to get good at flying your canopy, you need to jump that canopy and not switch back and forth.

Save your bucks and keep jumping what you have. Don't feel bad about not being able to land in a 20' circle. Most skydivers can't.



i can
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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So Dave,
what i'm hearing here is that i should continue on the same canopy. am I wrong here but dosent a more aggressive canopy fly more accurately?

My 190 is awesome but when I down sized to it I instantly had more control and was able to do way more than what the rentals could do. I understand that a smaller canopy is more difficult to control and more dangerous. But am I wrong to say that they are more accurate?
The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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My 190 is awesome but when I down sized to it I instantly had more control and was able to do way more than what the rentals could do. I understand that a smaller canopy is more difficult to control and more dangerous. But am I wrong to say that they are more accurate?



The most accurate jumpers on any DZ are often times the tandem guys, and they jump the biggest canopies around. Accuracy canopies are all bigger than 200 sq ft, some bigger than 250 ft.

My guess is that when you downsized to your current canopy, your skills were improving anyway, and the faster canopy just made it easier to 'see' where you were going. The 'accuracy trick' is common knowledge, where you look out for the spot in the distance that is not moving up or down in your field of view, and that this is the spot you will eventually hit.

When that spot, and the spots moving up or down in your field of view, are moving very slowly (like when your flying a slow canopy) sometimes the differences are harder to see. The changes are slower and more suttle, and as a newer jumper you're not 'sharp' enough to easily spot them, so accuracy is a bit of a crap-shoot.

When you downsize, the rate of change in the spots you're looking at is higher, and the changes are more apparent. There's a fair chance you were jumping extra-slow student type canopies, or that your WL was so low on them that they were barely moving. When you downsize, and get on a 'sport' jumper canopy, you get two increases; one from the downsize, and one from moving off student canopies into sport canopies. The end result is that it becomes easier to spot the spot.

That phenomenon will not carry forward. Now that you are on 'sport' gear, and at a reasonable loading, you won't be able to 'see' the spot any better after another downsize, it will just be coming at you faster (with no way to really slow down). Eventaully you'll adapt, and become used to the fatser canopy, but it's not going to be the break-through moment like when you got off student gear.

As far as downsizing goes, it all depends on hwo you feel. If you are confident with your current performance, and feel like you are always 'ahead' of the canopy, demo a 170 for a weekend and see how you feel. You may love it, or it may intimidate the crap out of you. Depending on which one it is, either keep the 190, or move on to 170-ville. As far as what to jump, any of the mid-level performance canopies are a good choice, Sabre2, Spectre, Storm, Pilot, Safire, etc, Just try them and see what feels good to you.

In terms of back up rigs, Dutton is right on the money. Eventually you have to pack both rigs anyway, so if you use a packer now, are you that busy that you need to two rigs along with a packer? Where I jump every staff rig is available for every other staffer to borrow for back to backs, so when all the tandem guys are busy, all of their rigs are free.

Even if the DZ is busy, you can turn work down. If the available work is worth buying and maintaining another rig, and you're guaranteed to have a slot and get all the jumps, then maybe get another rig. If there's an occasional back to back, and it's not your full time job, you can always just say, 'I need time to pack'. Repacks and Cypres alone will cost $250 a year no matter how many jumps you make. Adding jumps just costs more for relines and repairs. Can you make enough extra with two rigs to justify those costs? What about the initial purchase price?

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So Dave,
what i'm hearing here is that i should continue on the same canopy. am I wrong here but dosent a more aggressive canopy fly more accurately?

My 190 is awesome but when I down sized to it I instantly had more control and was able to do way more than what the rentals could do. I understand that a smaller canopy is more difficult to control and more dangerous. But am I wrong to say that they are more accurate?



A smaller canopy is more responsive. You can have more fun with it, but if you make a mistake, ...

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