Getting back to DZ from a bad spot.

[npgraphicdesign 2]

If you've had a bad spot (like the one I did this past weekend ), if you have enough time, and there are plenty of good 'outs' in case you don't make it, what's a good way to get back to the DZ? Had a coach at one DZ tell me that I could coast on my rear risers to get back from a long spot. I've tried it a few times and it worked fairly well.

Anything else one can do to get back from a bad spot?

[Floflo 0]

Some canopies respond better to rears, other to breaks, in that kind of situation. Depends if you're upwind or downwind as well.
What works on all canopies is to "make yourself small" to reduce drag.

[ianmdrennan 2]

If you have the wind at your back, the deepest brakes you can without stalling. Rears, with the wind at your back FEEL faster because of the higher ground speed, but you'll ultimately cover more distance in the deepest brakes you can.

Into a headwind, full flight (or if it's a slight headwind rears can be used).

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

Have you ever located and seen the "accuracy spot" while under canopy? Look down between your feet, you'll see yourself traveling across the ground. Look up toward the horizon and you'll see the ground "rising." Somewhere between those two points you'll find a spot that does not appear to be moving. If you did nothing and the winds were the same from where you are to that spot, that is where you would land.

Now using that knowledge, you're going to need to use that spot to determine if it is safe to try to get back to the DZ and what method gets you back with the most amount of altitude. Too many people have been hurt due to "get-back-itis." You can land out, and its better to land out safely than to get back hurt. The higher you are under canopy when you make the decision, the more altitude you have to choose a suitable landing spot and then transfer your pre-planned landing pattern to your new landing zone (you did pre-plan your pattern, didn't you?)

Go do a hop-n-pop to play with this and see what various toggle positions do for you as well as using your rears. See how far away you can move the accuracy spot. This is assuming that you've done toggle stalls and rear riser stalls on your canopy before, that way you know what the canopy does before it breaks and you know you've gone too deep/too slow.

With that practice dive(s) you can build the confidence you need in flying your canopy back or making a good decision to land off.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[npgraphicdesign 2]

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Have you ever located and seen the "accuracy spot" while under canopy? Look down between your feet, you'll see yourself traveling across the ground. Look up toward the horizon and you'll see the ground "rising." Somewhere between those two points you'll find a spot that does not appear to be moving. If you did nothing and the winds were the same from where you are to that spot, that is where you would land.

Now using that knowledge, you're going to need to use that spot to determine if it is safe to try to get back to the DZ and what method gets you back with the most amount of altitude. Too many people have been hurt due to "get-back-itis." You can land out, and its better to land out safely than to get back hurt. The higher you are under canopy when you make the decision, the more altitude you have to choose a suitable landing spot and then transfer your pre-planned landing pattern to your new landing zone (you did pre-plan your pattern, didn't you?)

Go do a hop-n-pop to play with this and see what various toggle positions do for you as well as using your rears. See how far away you can move the accuracy spot. This is assuming that you've done toggle stalls and rear riser stalls on your canopy before, that way you know what the canopy does before it breaks and you know you've gone too deep/too slow.

With that practice dive(s) you can build the confidence you need in flying your canopy back or making a good decision to land off.

Thanks for the feedback and tips Aggie. Yes the pattern was pre-planned, and I just barely got to the 1000 foot mark as I was starting to initiate my pattern. A few more seconds and I probably would've shortened my initial approach or eliminated the crosswind part of the approach altogether. The bad spot was my mistake, and thankfully I got back safely. Another jumper landed right besides the runway, and the other 2 people in the Cessna has the presence of mind to wait a bit longer before exiting.

[millertime24 8]

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Getting back to DZ from a bad spot.

Muff #5048

[linebckr83 3]

In a Flight-1 class with Tommy in May we discussed the different ways. He said he was always a rear riser guy and would debate rears/brakes with Ian until he went up and tested them out. He now agrees that deep brakes are best.

I was a rear riser guy too until that course, now I go into deep brakes as well. Plus I will put my thumbs in my hip rings and steer with harness input. MUCH less work than hanging on risers the whole way back!

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[Remster 24]

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Getting back to DZ from a bad spot.

Then it's not a bad spot, is it?

I use one of these...http://tinyurl.com/2eew3tk

Remster

[pchapman 261]

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He said he was always a rear riser guy and would debate rears/brakes with Ian until he went up and tested them out. He now agrees that deep brakes are best.

That's great that someone compared both ways, for their own canopy in certain conditions.

But I'd still want to see enough of the riser vs. brakes glide polars for a bunch of canopies, shift the curves for different wind conditions, draw glide slope lines, and analyze, before I believe that one method is conclusively better than the other.

[Psychonaut 0]

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Getting back to DZ from a bad spot.

Then it's not a bad spot, is it?

I use one of these...http://tinyurl.com/2eew3tk

Not sure if you just googled phonebooth or picked that one specifically.. I remember first reading about it and was sort of fascinated, just thought it was an awesome idea. I've always wanted to visit it even though it's shut off now..

Stay high pull low

[flow 1]

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If you have the wind at your back, the deepest brakes you can without stalling.

On my Velocity, very deep brakes.
On my VX, rear risers.

Done a lot of comparisons and VX just doesn't float that much on deep brakes.

[Floflo 0]

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On my Velocity, very deep brakes.
On my VX, rear risers.

Done a lot of comparisons and VX just doesn't float that much on deep brakes.

Must be a brand thing then...
For me,
Deep brakes on the Katana.
Rear risers on the Crossfire.

I can't say I tried everything in all the possible conditions, though.

[roostnureye 2]

i fly wingsuits with another guy and we are loaded really close to the same wl, anyways we both fly spectres, and i cant tell you from my experience on my canopy that rear risers pushed outward tword the edges of the canopy get me back further than brakes do with the wind at my back. weve done comparisons between leaving the brakes stowed vs rears, deep brakes vs rears, and 1/2 brake vs rears, i ALWAYS outfly him if im on the rears. mabye its a spectre thing but when you hit the brakes on a spectre you sink out.

Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

[LouDiamond 1]

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If you have the wind at your back, the deepest brakes you can without stalling. Rears, with the wind at your back FEEL faster because of the higher ground speed, but you'll ultimately cover more distance in the deepest brakes you can.

Into a headwind, full flight (or if it's a slight headwind rears can be used).

This is the most direct and descriptive explanation and it really does work.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[shropshire 0]

Generally, the bestist way to get back from a bad spot is in the Aircraft!!

It's your decision to leave said plane and thus your fault if the spot is bad.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[beowulf 1]

That is not always the case. If you are always spotting or jumping by yourself then I would agree.

If you keep jumping sooner or later you will end up with a bad spot or long spot and be forced to land off or work to make it back. The key is to have a plan as early as possible and not paint your self into a corner. Be conservative when landing off and pick a landing area early.

[shropshire 0]

That's true .. I over simplified ..

but it is worth reminding folks to 'Look before they leap'

Also, getting back to the DZ should not always be your highest priority. Landing safely is top of my list.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[virgin-burner 1]

as if YOU could land safely, like - uhm, EVER!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[normiss 619]

I say bullshit.

Getting back is not anywhere near as important as being alive.

Land off.

Walk back.

Learn a lesson.

I've landed off. I've walked back. I've embarrassed myself.
Walked once. Landed off once.
Lesson learned.

[bodypilot1 0]

The correct way to get back from a bad spot is to pull higher. Know more about what the winds are doing, instead of relying on the pilot to do it for you!

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[SRI85 0]

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If you've had a bad spot (like the one I did this past weekend ), if you have enough time, and there are plenty of good 'outs' in case you don't make it, what's a good way to get back to the DZ? Had a coach at one DZ tell me that I could coast on my rear risers to get back from a long spot. I've tried it a few times and it worked fairly well.

Anything else one can do to get back from a bad spot?

Pull higher. Im not sure why you landed off on that load. I exited after you and saw your canopy in the corn field as i was starting my base leg.

it really is a good habit to pull abover 4k. most people like to suck it down to 3. Most of the time im last on the ground, i have plenty of space to fly my canopy and not be restricted in heavy traffic.

[beowulf 1]

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I say bullshit.

Getting back is not anywhere near as important as being alive.

Land off.

Walk back.

Learn a lesson.

I've landed off. I've walked back. I've embarrassed myself.
Walked once. Landed off once.
Lesson learned.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote, but it wasn't what I meant to say. I did say to be conservative regarding landing out and choose a landing area early.

[Zlew 0]

Pull higher, check your spot, play with your canopy, don't be afraid to land out etc. are all true and good advice. But I think it is also important to learn as much as you can about getting every ounce of performance out of your canopy to help you get where you need to go safely. Looks like good advice was given by a very good source (Ian).

IMO, the more tools you have to work with, and the more you know about your wing and how to fly it...the more options you have to make the right decisions.

[Martini 0]

it really is a good habit to pull abover 4k. most people like to suck it down to 3.

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Your opinion, not a fact. Really.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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[SRI85 0]

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it really is a good habit to pull abover 4k. most people like to suck it down to 3.

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Your opinion, not a fact. Really.

yeah its a good opinion though.

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