Swoop Gone Wrong - The Aftermath

[Cheach 0]

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With your last canopy, could you land it 10 times out of 10 in a 10m circle standing up?

Yes and I can with this one too!
Look I'm not trying to justify my wing loading. I'm just tired of hearing people bitch about before the even see me fly it.

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The difference is some listen and some ignore.

I realize some people are extremely arrogant, but I find its more the way people approach the situation. Out of the 10 DZ I have been to I have had one guy as me if he could come out and video my landing and then sit down and critique it. At all the rest I had to ask for coaching and then usually not got it.

Oh and I fully believe that if someone is being unsafe around others and refuses to listen to coaching than the S&TA should be doing something about it.

Ummmmmmmm.... Really?

Isn't this your first canopy? And I'm not sure I've even seen you land it on your feet but maybe 10 times.

Now. Before you start in- yes. My landings used to suck-until I went and got canopy coaching. And say what you want- but I can land on my feet 99 percent of the time- with great accuracy. Coaching was wonderful for me. But then again- I'm at a 1.06 wl and not swooping. But whatever

I woke up next to a blowup doll Ash....so what do you think?

[castrodavidd 0]

Your full of shit Chap

[artard 0]

Good argument man have you considered going to 1.6 I think you're ready

http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

[castrodavidd 0]

Have considered it but will probally wait for 250 jumps, or if I lose some weight will go to a crossfire 169 with the same wing loading.

[menopause 0]

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Look I'm not trying to justify my wing loading. I'm just tired of hearing people bitch about before the even see me fly it.

So you realize that the guy that swooped into a spool (the guy caused this thread) had the exact same mindset and attitude that you do, right? What exactly is the harm in listening to what experienced people are telling you and chilling out on your downsizing? Are you actually aware of the potential consequences of your actions not just to yourself but others?

[skybytch 259]

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So you realize that the guy that swooped into a spool (the guy caused this thread) had the exact same mindset and attitude that you do, right? What exactly is the harm in listening to what experienced people are telling you and chilling out on your downsizing? Are you actually aware of the potential consequences of your actions not just to yourself but others?

Welcome to the joys of beating your head against brick walls.

[DocPop 1]

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So you realize that the guy that swooped into a spool (the guy caused this thread) had the exact same mindset and attitude that you do, right? What exactly is the harm in listening to what experienced people are telling you and chilling out on your downsizing? Are you actually aware of the potential consequences of your actions not just to yourself but others?

Welcome to the joys of beating your head against brick walls.

Menopause and skybytch - if you think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are so important why are both your profiles blank?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[menopause 0]

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Menopause and skybytch - if you think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are so important why are both your profiles blank?

Are you saying you don't think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are important?

[DocPop 1]

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Are you saying you don't think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are important?

I don't think they are unimportant, but I don't believe they tell the whole story. However, a blank profile yields no information whatsoever.

Why have you not completed yours? If nothing else it may add to your credibility (or not, probably, in my case).

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[menopause 0]

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I don't think they are unimportant, but I don't believe they tell the whole story. However, a blank profile yields no information whatsoever.

Why have you not completed yours? If nothing else it may add to your credibility (or not, probably, in my case).

In a way you are absolutely right. I am arguing from my experience of actually witnessing a guy swoop into a spool because of his rapid downsizing and attitude that other people should be careful about their downsizing choices. Other people are arguing from their experience of seeing people downsize "rapidly" and flying successfully that jump numbers do not necessarily matter.

I am also, in a way, jealous because I want to be flying an aggressive canopy currently but do not feel like I have the ability to do so safely. Fear of injury based on my experience outweighs my desire to downsize rapidly.

Edit: I'm also not in the mood to die anytime soon, and the news on the street is we get a lot of fatalities in this sport from people doing stupid shit under good canopies.

[castrodavidd 0]

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So you realize that the guy that swooped into a spool (the guy caused this thread) had the exact same mindset and attitude that you do, right? What exactly is the harm in listening to what experienced people are telling you and chilling out on your downsizing? Are you actually aware of the potential consequences of your actions not just to yourself but others?

How the hell do you know what my attidude is toward downsizing. What would you say if I started on a 190 but my weight has just gone up. You prejudge on jump numbers and wing loading with out having any idea on the pilot, his history, and ability. If you have been trying to teach us young jumpers than thankyou even if we are to hard headed to listen to it. If all you do is critizise shut the hell up. thats what turns us off from listening to others

[kallend 1,623]

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Are you saying you don't think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are important?

I don't think they are unimportant, but I don't believe they tell the whole story. However, a blank profile yields no information whatsoever.

Why have you not completed yours? If nothing else it may add to your credibility (or not, probably, in my case).

There is a big difference between someone with 200 jumps' worth of experience and someone with one jump's worth of experience repeated 200 times. That is why just using jump numbers as an indicator is absurd.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[menopause 0]

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If there is one thing I have learned in this sport is that Skydivers are going to progress the way they want to or die trying.

How the hell do you know what my attidude is toward downsizing.

I guess this says it all, really.

[castrodavidd 0]

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There is a big difference between someone with 200 jumps' worth of experience and someone with one jump's worth of experience repeated 200 times. That is why just using jump numbers as an indicator is absurd.

I

agree 100%

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If there is one thing I have learned in this sport is that Skydivers are going to progress the way they want to or die trying.

How the hell do you know what my attidude is toward downsizing.

I guess this says it all, really.

So my attitude towards downsizing sucks even though I have never actually downsized. Hmmmm.

[AggieDave 6]

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So my attitude towards downsizing sucks even though I have never actually downsized. Hmmmm.

You did AFF on a Heatwave 170 loaded at 1.4? That's a really "progressive" DZ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[castrodavidd 0]

No started on a Triathalon 190 in Lodi, used a friends Saber 190 untill I bought my own gear and then bought a heatwave 190. which I use today. I was loaded 1.1 at lodi. got married and gained weight.

[AggieDave 6]

Ok, 190, but you seriously did your first jump on a 190 loaded at 1.4? At the same DZ that has banned swooping?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[monkycndo 0]

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Are you saying you don't think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are important?

I don't think they are unimportant, but I don't believe they tell the whole story. However, a blank profile yields no information whatsoever.

Why have you not completed yours? If nothing else it may add to your credibility (or not, probably, in my case).

Before I take anyone's advice here on the interweb, I tend to do a little research about them to know if they are heads up or full of shit. Posted jump numbers and time in sport can be accurate, or not. It took me only a bit of lurking to find those I trust for advice and those that are a waste of time in reading their posts. Number of jumps and time in sport were not the only criteria I used. It is very easy to determine that people such as the Bytch have been around a while and know a little something useful about this sport. And have seen enough stupid shit to hopefully help prevent that same stupid shit from happening to someone else. I'm a firm believer in learning from other peoples' mistakes without having to feel the pain myself. I have felt enough already, be it a broken ankle or the loss of friends. I've only been here about 5 years and know enough that I have so much more to learn. Yet I have been accused by the over testosteroned-madskilz-above average newer jumper of being a crusty old skygod for calling their actions to be foolhardy. Sigh. Man I feel old.


Now got off my lawn.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[castrodavidd 0]

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Ok, 190, but you seriously did your first jump on a 190 loaded at 1.4? At the same DZ that has banned swooping?

No, just got fat was at 1.1

[AggieDave 6]

Hey, it happens, I've been known to load up a canopy myself; however, something that is very important to understand is that a significant weight gain is something consider. Consider to the point of making an upsize.

When I had under 200 jumps I was on a Heatwave 170. It was a horrible decision, let me explain why. The was too small for me, Skybytch was there back then telling me that it was too small, I told her basically what you've said here. I never broke a bone or hooked in, but overall I got lucky. That not with standing, it took me LONGER to become a good swooper due to having to fight against a canopy that was too fast too soon!

I firmly believe that if I had bought/jumped a Sabre2 210 instead of a Heatwave 170, then I would have progressed faster and learned faster and would have been a better swooper sooner. That would mean I would be a better swooper now!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[castrodavidd 0]

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Hey, it happens, I've been known to load up a canopy myself; however, something that is very important to understand is that a significant weight gain is something consider. Consider to the point of making an upsize.

When I had under 200 jumps I was on a Heatwave 170. It was a horrible decision, let me explain why. The was too small for me, Skybytch was there back then telling me that it was too small, I told her basically what you've said here. I never broke a bone or hooked in, but overall I got lucky. That not with standing, it took me LONGER to become a good swooper due to having to fight against a canopy that was too fast too soon!

I firmly believe that if I had bought/jumped a Sabre2 210 instead of a Heatwave 170, then I would have progressed faster and learned faster and would have been a better swooper sooner. That would mean I would be a better swooper now!

Now see I actually value that opinion. Thanks Aggie Dave

[AggieDave 6]

Thanks.

Now the hard part, start by calling up PD/Icarus/Aerodyne and demo the Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot in the 210 range, sell the Heatwave and buy something like the three canopies listed in the 210 size. If you do, you'll be more likely to look back at this in 10 years and laugh at this all.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[castrodavidd 0]

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Now the hard part, start by calling up PD/Icarus/Aerodyne and demo the Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot in the 210 range, sell the Heatwave and buy something like the three canopies listed in the 210 size. If you do, you'll be more likely to look back at this in 10 years and laugh at this all

.
My plan is to go down and get some coaching at Dallas or maybee even down at spaceland if I can swing it. The person I was talking about earlier in the post who offered to give some coach was Rory down there. If I had someone who was constructively critising my flying and told me that I should probally up size I would give alot more serious thought to it.

[AggieDave 6]

Good luck.

At Dallas Curt is the man. I teach canopy control courses based out of SD Aggieland, but can and have traveled. My focus is fundamental skills to build the foundation for advanced canopy flight. That emphasizes landing patterns, slow flight, flat turns, stalls and planning your canopy flight correctly. The reason why I approach coaching with those things is due to their need to correctly fly an advanced approach. With out all of those skills having been mastered you will never be able to accurately or safely swoop. Since you're a pilot you should understand the concepts much quicker than some, but with out the saddle time under your canopy, you won't be able to perform any of them.

The point is you don't have to get coaching from me, but you should get coaching from someone who is a qualified source, and I'm glad you're seeking out coaching.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 259]

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if you think jump numbers, canopy type and wing loading are so important why are both your profiles blank?

Because I prefer not to put a bunch of personal information out there on a public website. Because I'd prefer not to be contacted by lawyers for the family of the injured/deceased or random reporters about something I've posted here.

And because I've been around here long enough that those who matter already know how many jumps I have and what kind of canopies I fly and what ratings I hold and what I used to do for a living... and because I don't really care if anybody thinks what I say is credible or not anymore.