humanflite 0 #1 February 22, 2010 ok, so I have a pilot 150 (WL 1.45) in a second rig for some camera jumps. A week or so ago I saw the reaper/heli-med much too near for my liking. I was under canopy, reasonable uppers but nothing OTT. Entered the pattern, got down to about 400 feet where I turned to final - straight in approach, nothing funky. Weather was cold, and it had been hailing earlier that day. I could feel some gusting on approach, but at about 250 feet the canopy suddenly ran into what seemed like a brick wall, like at the end of the flare when it uses up all its energy and lift. It then stalled, dove forward, and hard, to the right. I could feel a gust blowing me sideways, like the god of wind was trying to blow out a match! I could see titanium club at best for a worrying few seconds and thank god I managed to get the wing inflated and level again by about 40-50 feet max ... i took a semi downwinder as there was no other option left and I was freaked out by the events. So. Summary, has anyone else had this? I know a gust CAN stall a canopy, but this canopy has done the same thing during windy (not gusty) conditions once before (a hard unplanned dive to the right) but it was nothing like as scary as this latest incident and was higher up. I know, jumping in adverse conditions is best avoided, but on both occasions, the winds were steady (in limits) when the plane took off. Just wanting some feedback from other pilots on what could have caused it and is there a better way to prevent it or deal with it. Further info: The landing area was completely open and not near any buildings or trees for well over 800 metres all directions thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebcat 0 #2 February 22, 2010 Old, but relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tgVyJ2bmqE - Xaos 98 vs Dust Devil. Was the sun shining, was there anything on the ground that might have created some thermals? Like dark sheet metal, asphalt, etc. On another note, here's what wikipedia has to say about hail: QuoteHail is possible with most thunderstorms as it is produced by cumulonimbi (thunderclouds),[1] usually at the leading edge of a severe storm system. Hail is possible within 2 nautical miles (3.7 km) of its parent thunderstorm. Hail formation requires environments of strong, upward motion of air with the parent thunderstorm (similar to tornadoes) and lowered heights of the freezing level. So, was there any cumulonimbus clouds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #3 February 22, 2010 QuoteOld, but relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tgVyJ2bmqE - Xaos 98 vs Dust Devil. Was the sun shining, was there anything on the ground that might have created some thermals? Like dark sheet metal, asphalt, etc. On another note, here's what wikipedia has to say about hail: QuoteHail is possible with most thunderstorms as it is produced by cumulonimbi (thunderclouds),[1] usually at the leading edge of a severe storm system. Hail is possible within 2 nautical miles (3.7 km) of its parent thunderstorm. Hail formation requires environments of strong, upward motion of air with the parent thunderstorm (similar to tornadoes) and lowered heights of the freezing level. So, was there any cumulonimbus clouds? Thanks. Thats a good point actually, I was crossing the border of the PLA which meant I was over the border of a ploughed field and had just crossed over to the edge of the main grass PLA..not sure if the field could have affected things. The sun was present but as mentioned it was a cold day and was hailing on this canopy ride. (it wasnt hailing when we went up and there was addequate visibility *broken clouds*) the hail was present during the jump (on opening pretty much) and my goggles iced over going through some solid cloud so there is a fair chance they were not your average clouds... but I didnt stop around to study what type they were. Only BIG and SCARY looking! we clearly got caught out by the weather, but that has happened before (not very often thankfully) and I never had something like this happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #4 February 22, 2010 According to the meteorology we have to learn for our C license, if there was hail, there were CBs. CBs can project gusts over unexpectedly large distances. (I really don't know any better than hail unequivocally implies CB. Willing to be corrected on this point.) CB: turbulence, icing, updrafts. Keep well clear. *Very* well. They don't just look scary, they are scary. In short, you were lucky. Try not to depend on being lucky in future .. Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #5 February 23, 2010 Mine was caused by a sudden change in wind direction, according to 3 other jumpers that were in the air with me. I was flying slightly crosswind when a gust hit me and folded my canopy up. The guy right behind me saw it happen and turned into it in time, so did the guy behind him. A guy on the other side of the landing area saw all 3 of us get hit, then got hit himself a few seconds later. I thought it was just turbulence until I got back to the hangar and found out from spectators that my canopy folded in half. It was a Nitron [email protected] W/L, the winds were heavy and a little bumpy, I believe we were on an A license wind hold. A highly qualified canopy pilot told me to get on the brakes a little, just enough to take the slack out but not enough to slow the canopy, to improve your reaction time if you need to stab at the toggles."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #6 February 23, 2010 thanks guys @ gearless chris - Thats how I usually have dealt with choppy winds before is a tiny application of brakes as I have found it makes the canopy more stable (my canopy) I am very curious to know if it would have saved me a new pair of Calvins on this occasion! Thats what worried me so much is it came totally out of nowhere it seemed but with people pointing out the underlying issues from the weather it seems it wasnt exactly out of nowhere :/ Lesson learnt New underwear purchased Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #7 February 23, 2010 the most important thing you can do in any collapse situation is keep a heading. especially near the ground. do not let a collapse change your heading. you still have control of your canopy, even if the outside 3 cells are collapsed. Fly it, all the way. This is a canopy flying rule, not just for paragliders. keep the heading, and it will re-inflate. what not to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T24X-NBNsPM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #8 February 23, 2010 Quotethe most important thing you can do in any collapse situation is keep a heading. especially near the ground. do not let a collapse change your heading. you still have control of your canopy, even if the outside 3 cells are collapsed. Fly it, all the way. This is a canopy flying rule, not just for paragliders. keep the heading, and it will re-inflate. what not to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T24X-NBNsPM Thanks calvin I am aware of active piloting but didnt know about the specific maintaining heading bit during a collapse. I think I did the best possible thing I could do given this situation though. Half the canopy collapsed and hence it dived hard and lsot a lot of height. I managed to re inflate that side by using toggle input and then just had to manage with the heading I was left with. downwind pretty much (from being facing into the wind) Will have to speak to some canopy gurus about how best to maintain a heading in this kind of scenario?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
