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DebaucheroRdrgz

Recovery Arcs on intermediate canopies.

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Seems to me an honest questions was asked in a forum that is designed to be a resource center for people interested in canopy flight and somehow turned into a flame fest.

is this guy in an extreme danger zone for canopy choice and skill level? yes, more than he knows. however, it is possible to get through it IF he takes the right steps, but he has to be flawless or he will get him self hurt or killed, or worse, someone else.

so to the original poster...DON'T FUCK UP
Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down


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by the way for all you "young" canopy pilots out there, if you truely want to really learn something and truely want to last in the sport of skydiving, then listen to JC in the below video. JC, for those that don't know has been around this sport and has probably one of THE biggest impacts on our sport than anyone else out there right now and I do mean any one. every time i personally speak with him or just watch him i realize how little i know and i learn something new every time. so everyone on DZ.com should listen to this cause JC really is the Moses of the canopy piloting world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgNrB-7y5g
Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down


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See that's the problem with this website/ forum. No one really gives a crap about what anyone with less than a thousand jumps thinks.



That's a negative ghostrider. The ironic part is that my proof you are incorrect is the very same poster you were replying to, danielcroft. I've had several exchanges with him in the past few months, in threads and PMs, and they've all been positive and productive.

It starts with a good attitude, and extends into asking intelligent questions. Your attitude, as proven by your response to my original post to you, is a pile of shit.

It doesn't help that what you're asking about isn't the least bit intelligent. You are so far off in what you're doing, and what you're thinking about doing, it's not even funny.

Here, I'll prove it with your own words -
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By the way I learn plenty by being inquisitive and devouring information



Maybe that's what your guidance counselor told you in 9th grade, but that's not how it works in the high speed parachute business.

You learn the high speed parachute business by jumping. End of story.

Everything else is just icing on the cake, but first you need a place to put the icing, and jumping is the only way to bake that cake.


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I would hope that you've taken a more consultative approach with your canopy progression than you have with your efforts to become a rigger (even if you don't have a lot of options on that front).

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BTW What are you talking about?



You know exactly what he's talking about. It's the other thread you started asking for help on how to close a Reflex reserve container.

You went on to explain that you were 'self-teaching' yourself to be a rigger just because there was nobody around to help. So you found yourself a Reflex with a reserve in it, and were working on it by yourself, up until you got stuck and started a thread looking for answers.

You clearly haven't been in this sport very long, but you should know that this is no place for a cavalier attitude, and that the rules were made for everyone, you included.

Things go from great to a horrific tragedy very quickly. If you saw the video with JC, he describes just how fast it happens. Literally 15 seconds after breaking off from a great skydive (with a great skydiver) was all it took, and the jump still stands out in his mind after 12 years and upwards of 10,000 jumps.

Slow yourself down a little, and build in a little more margin for error in what you're doing. Just because everything seems great right now, doesn't mean that it's going to stay that way for very long.

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sorry I hurt your feelings get over it.



Not to worry, I don't have feelings.

Skydiving is not made up of good intentions, or well wishes. It's a science, where things work (or don't work) in a very specific way. If you have any hopes of success in this sport, you need to start thinking more like a scientist.

The first step is setting your ego aside, and being open to learning something. You have to admit that you were not being very 'open minded' with regards to my post. I certainly have the time in the sport and experience that my opinion should be of some value to you, but because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, my qualifications and opinion simply fell by the wayside.

Skydiving doesn't give two shits about what you want. Every jumper that went in last year didn't want to die, but they did. Whatever mistake they made killed them dead, regardless of how right they thought they were, how much they wanted to be right, or how great of a person they were. It's that clinical and that fast.

I'm trying to give you some adivce that might increase your lifespan, or decrease the amount of time you spend in a wheelchair. Back away from the edge, there's no reason to be that close. In another 100 jumps, the edge will move itself further out, and you will become more free without the added risk. Repeat as needed.

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Yackety yack... sorry I hurt your feelings get over it.



I would suggest you tone your posts down, and remove the chip from your shoulder.

1) Not everyone is 'out to get you'
2) You're borderline trolling at this point - if you keep trying to inflame other posters, I'll let you cool your jets out of this forum for a while.

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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You do need to realize that a lot of people here talking to you in this thread know what they are talking about. Act like a sponge and they will continue to tell you stuff. Act like a rock and they will stop telling you very important information that will help you.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Wow, serious video that one, thanks for posting.

I really did find the info about recovery arcs interesting. When I start looking at an elliptical (not for a while!) I was thinking that the XF2 was going to be the way to go, the information in this thread has helped me understand the canopies better.

In spite of how the thread turned out, it really was a good question.

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by the way for all you "young" canopy pilots out there, if you truely want to really learn something and truely want to last in the sport of skydiving, then listen to JC in the below video. JC, for those that don't know has been around this sport and has probably one of THE biggest impacts on our sport than anyone else out there right now and I do mean any one. every time i personally speak with him or just watch him i realize how little i know and i learn something new every time. so everyone on DZ.com should listen to this cause JC really is the Moses of the canopy piloting world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgNrB-7y5g


He teaches a great canopy course! I really enjoyed his teaching.
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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Great post, Dave. I hope people actually hear what you have to say. Kudos to you for not giving up on this after seeing the same thing happening year after year.

To the OP's reaction: you should come train some freestyle at the new School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Just look it up on Facebook. Unlike Dave here, the old rusty anchor of progress, who tries to keep new talent down, they dont bullshit you - they tell you EXACTLY what YOU want to hear.

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I saw the post about you flying a 135 Stiletto at 140 jumps and just wanted to say I don't see a problem with that - but realize you have increased the danger factor.
I started jumping my 135 Stiletto at 40 jumps - yes 40 jumps and I never hurt myself on it. I always did a basic landing pattern and came straight it. I found the additional flare power of the Stiletto awesome. FYI I was loading it at around 1.1.

I kept this canopy and didn't even start doing carving turns to land until I had another 400 jumps.

I may have just been "lucky" but I don't think so. It's just common sense and remembering two main points - DONT TURN LOW & STUFF HAPPENS FASTER. If you made a mistake in your set up, you need to realize that at 3 or 4 hundred feet, not 50 and try to correct.
You have to do what you are comfortable with and make sure to take and listen to the advice of the experienced canopy pilots around where you jump. If they tell you that you are going to hurt yourself, you better listen.

Blue ones!

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by the way for all you "young" canopy pilots out there, if you truely want to really learn something and truely want to last in the sport of skydiving, then listen to JC in the below video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgNrB-7y5g



Wise words from JC.

Like he says asking questions and finding information is the way to learn. He also advices that being able to take advice, even though the advice might not be given in a way that seems appropriate is the way to success.

The way I interprete the last bit is that not just being able to take advice is important, but also giving advice in a manner that wont cause a negative reaction in the recipient is very important.

I cant help noticing how in this sport it has became a true tradition to give "advice" by quite literally starting the actual advice with this Fuck you -attitude. Not only you will upset the recipient, but you will also make sure he/she will have no motivation to listen to anything out of the actual constructive message. On the contrary this could even provoke the recipient to act contrary to the advice..

This is why the way the advice is given is very important. Giving good and needed advice in the wrong manner, might actually make things even worse..

And about the actual question in this case:

My opinion is that I dont see much reason for giving advice for appropriate canopy over the net without seeing the individual fly his canopy. Why not let the friends and mentors at the DZ evaluate these questions ? They have seen him fly and they on much firmer grounds giving him the appropriate feedback.

:)

EDIT: what I wrote was some general commentary and was not directed to anyone particularly..

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In other words, if person A calls person B else a Skygod, person B may have done something to give that impression.

On the other hand, if person B tells person A that they are at increased danger of becoming a statistic, person A may have said/done something to give that impression.

In either case, the person about whom the impression has been formed would be better off thinking about why that impression arose, rather than ignoring it.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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but also giving advice in a manner that wont cause a negative reaction in the recipient is very important.



And the pussification of the world continues. It's not a "Fuck you" attitude. It's this little thing called reality.
I'm gonna guess you played in a sports league where everyone got trophies too?:S

You don't have to be mean when you tell someone they are all fucked up - but a lot of people misinterpret honesty/bluntness for being a dick, especially when they don't like what was said.

Also - listen to Frost. The SoFPiDaRF is a great school. Taught me everything I know about canopy flight.

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Advice is a two way street. It's quite hard to know how best to give advice (if at all) when you don't actually know someone. Does that mean that a comment shouldn't be made to someone who may be putting themselves in danger without knowing it? I'd like to hope that people would tell me to be careful if i were doing something really dangerous/stupid. What I do with that information is up to me and would obviously depend on what the advice was and more importantly, who was giving it. That's the other side of the coin, accepting advice based on the intent, not the manner in which it was given. It's hard to swallow your ego and accept that you may be doing something wrong but that's part of learning. You can learn from other's mistakes or you can make them all yourself but personally, I'd much prefer to be given the option to make that choice rather than have people just not say something because they might hurt my feelings. Feelings mend a lot quicker than a femur.

When someone reacts negatively to advice such as has happened many times on this site (and in person I'm sure), it suggests that they're not making wise/mature decisions and would lead to further concern generally about their decision making process.

I'm certainly not immune to this so I have joined the School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=285841663777&ref=ts

:D

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The way I interprete the last bit is that not just being able to take advice is important, but also giving advice in a manner that wont cause a negative reaction in the recipient is very important.



No offence man, but how did you ever get that from what he said?

To paraphase, "Don't be too big or too proud to listen to what someone else has to say. Even if you don't like the way the advice was given, just take it for what it is, and put in your pocket full of tools".

I get the exact opposite of what you did from that. To me, that means that the delivery of the adivce is not what's important, it's the advice itself that counts, and it's the advice you should remember and use someday.

The pile of shit delivery you can just let go and forget. Some shithead's bad attitude isn't going to help you, or change your life, but what they have to say just might.

I think the best line from the whole video was when the interviewer summed it all up and said, "So, just put on your big-boy pants, right?". That's really the solution to this whole issue. Grow up and act like an adult.

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+1 Dave

If you don't like the delivery, stay out of the HP game. I'm sure there is a forum on the interweb where you can hang out with the sychronized swimming girls and get all touchy feely with them; up until the moment that they tell you that the tutu you had custom made will kill you because it soaks up more water than a Sham-Wow.

Then you're back to squre one.
It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

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