Why Velocity is so popular?

[hparrish 0]

To be Fair..........Nick Batsch fly's a JVX exclusively and both are at the same meet competing. Jay set the record on his Velo.

I'm a JVX Pilot and hardcore advocate. But seriously.....do you really think its the canopy?

My Air Jordans never got me Dunking either...

[icevideot 0]

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My Air Jordans never got me Dunking either...

So.... are you saying my Velos aversion to flying through gates may not be PD's fault?


I guess I may need to practice more.

To the OP, I fly Velos because when I was in the market for xbraced they opened nice and soft (very important for my camera work) and were more available than the others (on the used market). That being said, I really love them.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[hparrish 0]

Uh Oh.............

Distance = 181.70m (Nick Batsch)


But Jay is still on the top of the Leader Board. Nick is 4th.

[mmm_peanuts 0]

Sangi, something that you need to understand is that the canopy being flown has never been the limiting factor in swooping. It sounds like you have the idea in your head that, with the pilot taken out of the equation, that the JVX flown 100% perfectly will outperform a velo/comp velo that is also flown 100% perfectly. No pilot in skydiving history has ever flown their canopy so perfectly that additional speed/distance (disregard wind) is unattainable. This means the maximum performance of any parachute is yet to be seen, and at the moment is unknown. From my own observations of what the top pilots are pulling off, the fact that the JVX pilots and velo pilots are trading off records every year suggests that the ultimate performance of the two are relatively close. I do believe that there is a wing that performs ultimately higher, as there are with airplane wings, but the level of testing, research, and variable control in sport parachuting has not gotten to the point where definitive conclusions can be drawn. Hopefully this helps you better understand the point that its not the wing, its the pilot.

[timmyfitz 0]

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Hopefully this helps you better understand the point that its not the wing, its the pilot.

I believe that was his point. It was also mine since I already posted it.

[Sangi 0]

I really do agree that the pilot is what makes the biggest difference in the end, but come on man, you can't deny that the design of the canopy and material used has no real significant difference.. There has to be a design and material that's superior over another..

So by this logic, there will never be a consensus oh what canopy is higher performing.. And basically any new design and material used will never really beat any of the old design and materials, because the pilots will never fly the wing "perfectly"?

So in the end, there is no point in different canopies and brands, besides choosing the one that has specific flying characteristics suited for you and there will never be a canopy that generally has the most potential and power of them all?

And last of all, everyone can continue flying a dated Velocity for the next 20-30 years and be happy with it?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[bvacher 0]

Six PD Factory Team Members in the top ten rankings - all flying competition velocities.

WC Silver medalist overall - flying two old stock (VE) velocities.

World record in distance with JVX. World Speed record with Velo.

Just which is better the JVX or Velo or the Xaos or Sensei? Plays on your mind doesn't it.

[Sangi 0]

What if those pilots flying JVX's aren't good enough?

What if you gave these PD pilots JVX's and what if they've spent the same amount of time on those JVX's as they had on the Velo's..?

Wouldn't the new design and material prevail?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[mmm_peanuts 0]

Ok, I figured that you would have assumed I was talking about canopies in the same class, which is in this case, the ultra (or whatever you would like to call it). The point between the comp velo and jvx was that, no there is not enough evidence to come to any conclusion which ultimately performs higher. Material choice does make a signifigant difference on performance of the same type of wing. Ie you can determine sail works better for the JVX design than zp. You cant conclude, with the piloting today, if a sail jvx out performs a comp velo. Two completely different animals. As for future canopies, it is definitely possible that a "king daddy" will emerge, what with new designs and patents to them.

Quote: There has to be a design and material that's superior over another

I do believe this as well, but I do not think that a clear winner has emerged. Flown well, these two canopies have resulted in very similar numbers, like distance. This is shown by that record being broken by both jvxs and comp velos every couple of months.

Quote: So in the end, there is no point in different canopies and brands, besides choosing the one that has specific flying characteristics suited for you

This is exactly true. I see it every day with a guy with a vengence @1.8 going 2-3 times as far as another pilot flying a velo with full RDS at 2.1+. Better technique with a lower performing canopy can most certainly out perform a higher performing one flown incorrectly.

[raymod2 1]

Sangi, you've made your point. The top pilots are sponsored. They are not free to change their canopies unless they want to give up their sponsorship or seek out a new one. For this reason competition results are not necessarily a useful metric for judging the best canopy design.

So which is the better design? The JVX or the Velocity? First of all, you are not going to get an unbiased answer from a sponsored pilot (at least not on the record). Also, brand loyalty is like religion. It is very hard to engage people in logical discussions about it. I have flown (and competed) under both and I am not sponsored. I currently choose to fly the JVX because I still believe that a 9-cell has more performance potential than a 7-cell. But my opinion could change. I have not flown the competition Velocity yet.

[Sangi 0]

Yeah I guess I made my point.

In the end, enjoy flying whatever you're flying..

Over and out.

P.S. I'm still for the JVX anyway

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

Remember the unofficial distance record in Lilo 2008,.. this was done by Bruno Brokken,... with an old standard Velocity

[piisfish 135]

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P.S. I'm still for the JVX anyway

GET ONE, JUMP IT, AND COMPARE IT TO YOUR JUMPS ON A VELOCITY. COME BACK WITH YOUR EDUCATED IMPRESSIONS We are ready to wait for a couple of years.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mr_prick 0]

i would somehow prefer he skips the years jumping, goes for it and after that straight to the hospital where uses the time for some reflecting on his constant uneducated bullshit spewing.
i wonder if the dude is trolling....if not it's pretty scary.

[virgin-burner 1]

in his defense, he actually did ask some good questions lately; on the other hand, he asks some REALLY silly shit at times..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

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I really do agree that the pilot is what makes the biggest difference in the end, but come on man, you can't deny that the design of the canopy and material used has no real significant difference.. There has to be a design and material that's superior over another..

So by this logic, there will never be a consensus oh what canopy is higher performing.. And basically any new design and material used will never really beat any of the old design and materials, because the pilots will never fly the wing "perfectly"?

So in the end, there is no point in different canopies and brands, besides choosing the one that has specific flying characteristics suited for you and there will never be a canopy that generally has the most potential and power of them all?

That's not the point. The point is that with the constraints currently faced by canopy designers (a: budget and b: it needs to open, among many others) the incremental performance increases that each company is bringing to the table are very, very small. So small that differences in pilot skill more than make up for differences in canopies.

If you could give either PD or Icarus/Daedalus a much, much bigger R&D budget for their top performance wings then maybe you'd start to see paraglider like performance increases (where they update their entire range each year, and this years mid-range wing performs like the unrated comp prototype of a couple of years ago) but to expect that within the skydiving industry is completely unrealistic.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[timmyfitz 0]

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i would somehow prefer he skips the years jumping, goes for it and after that straight to the hospital where uses the time for some reflecting on his constant uneducated bullshit spewing.
i wonder if the dude is trolling....if not it's pretty scary.

I can not understand how you came up with your user name.

[rhys 0]

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If you could give either PD or Icarus/Daedalus a much, much bigger R&D budget for their top performance wings then maybe you'd start to see paraglider like performance increases (where they update their entire range each year, and this years mid-range wing performs like the unrated comp prototype of a couple of years ago) but to expect that within the skydiving industry is completely unrealistic.

Maybe in the USA, but in 'lil old' New Zealand, Daedalus has the net few generations of parachutes ready to go but not yet available.

Rememeber? It was NZAerosports that released the Mk1 Icarus EXTreme in 1994, to become the extreme FX in 1997and not matched by any other until 1999 when the velocity was released. On that same day in 1999 the VX was announced. The VX was ready to go, already there and brocures printed, tomorrows next canopy is already ready now, the pilots and the market just aren't ready for it yet.

http://www.nzaerosports.com/about-us

The pilots take a long time to work out all the querks, and other pilots and manufactureres will copy each others Ideas.

So it truly 'is' the pilot that is ultimately responsable for the performance of a canopy.

You may have a Ferrari, but can or will you drive one to it's maximum potential..? I don't think so!

In the end, don't underestimate what is already produced but not yet available.

No paragliding company uses cross braced design(please correct me if i am wrong) they 'probably' don't need to because thay dont need to fold into a small container and can have many ribs and stiffeners as well as thick more rigid fabric.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[phoenixlpr 0]

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No paragliding company uses cross braced design(please correct me if i am wrong) they 'probably' don't need to because thay dont need to fold into a small container and can have many ribs and stiffeners as well as thick more rigid fabric.

AFAIK they fly with relatively low WL. What would be the benefit of cross bracing for them?

[mr_prick 0]

you are wrong. of course the utilize crossbraced designs.
paragliders are where it's at. i've jumped some small and fast canopys but never had the feeling of power and respect than under paragliders.
you should do it, the feeling of power and a real effective wing above you is just great.
same goes for speedfliers.
and acro wings are just outright scary.
but as someone said before....they don't have to open.

[mr_prick 0]

sail tension, rigidness, more stability in tumbles(+sealed off nose) etc.

[chuckakers 369]

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...they treat all their customers like sponsored skydivers when it comes to customer service.

+1

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[jakee 1,254]

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No paragliding company uses cross braced design(please correct me if i am wrong)

You're wrong.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[frost 1]

I do agree with everything else in your post, except for a few little details.

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Rememeber?

Well... yes, some do!

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In 1990 Performance Designs launched Excalibur, the first cross-braced canopy. this technology was designed and patented by Performance Designs and is being used in canopies from around the world.

BTW, the US Patent was filed by Bill Coe in 1988 in Florida.

And also lets remember that the cross braced technology was tried and used in the early ram air designs of canopies developed in the former Soviet Union in the 70s, if my memory serves me correctly.

So like you said:

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The pilots take a long time to work out all the querks, and other pilots and manufactureres will copy each others Ideas

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No paragliding company uses cross braced design(please correct me if i am wrong)

I guess someone already has corrected you on this .

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Maybe in the USA, but in 'lil old' New Zealand, Daedalus has the net few generations of parachutes ready to go but not yet available.
... don't underestimate what is already produced but not yet available.

That's more of a speculation than anything else. If the new canopies exist, but not available to the masses then whats the point? They dont exist, really.

BTW, I am designing a magic canopy in my back yard that will surpass ALL current designs AND will make a 100 jump novice into world champion swooper all in 10 jumps or less! I am taking 50% pre-orders right now for a TBD delivery date in the distant future, please email me for my offshore paypal account.

[superstu 0]

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And also lets remember that the cross braced technology was tried and used in the early ram air designs of canopies developed in the former Soviet Union in the 70s, if my memory serves me correctly

Great Shatolov, now you're making this crap political

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down