Sangi 0 #1 November 25, 2009 So I was always wondering, why's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies? Why wouldn't you want to jump this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJbnagUfFg&feature=related? The speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well... I hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX, so is one of the reasons that most of them can't handle a canopy like this?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #2 November 25, 2009 Price..availability..brand loyalty..opinion.. They all have a part to play ... PS - I have both Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj126 0 #3 November 25, 2009 For me was the availablity of the local (US) dealers and the serious price difference. But I still picked up a used JVX, and both have there perks.I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #4 November 25, 2009 i switched to PD primarily because of the customer service. I was tired of getting brushed off once they had my money. p.s. i would fly PD even if i wasn't sponsored because they treat all their customers like sponsored skydivers when it comes to customer service.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #5 November 25, 2009 QuoteThe speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well... I take it you've never seen Jay's 678ft distance run?Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #6 November 25, 2009 QuoteI hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX, so is one of the reasons that most of them can't handle a canopy like this? Funny you should say that, because the guy in the vid you chose to post had some issues subsequently handling that very canopy : Quote I bounced my full sail 69 last Christmas; not fun! Pushed it beyond the max; tried to slam on the brakes - but they weighed a TON; & just couldn't do it. So resorted to a scene from sonic the hedgehog! But somehow escaped with just a few hospital days & some sore muscles! (Not on video though; which truly sucks!) Anyway.. Take it easy! And enjoy ;) Taken from his comments on this vid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc&feature=related Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #7 November 25, 2009 Quotewhy's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies ...Why wouldn't you want to jump this... Most of the time, I'd say 85-90% of it - this is pure sheep mentality. This is true for anything - skis, skateboards, bikes, whatever. "The top guys use 'x-product', so will i - it will make me better!". No, it wont. QuoteI hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX What's easier to fly is a subjective opinion. Very much so. The only good reason to select a product out of several equally good products is because YOU liked it. The only right way to know for sure what those reasons are is to try all of these products out before deciding. If Stu tells you that the JVX is different from the Velo in and he thinks that based on Velocity suits his flying style better - then you should have no doubt - he has plenty of experience on both wings. But people that say "Velocity forever!" NEVER having tried any other wing in the same class are just clowns, really. Customer service is another good point to consider when picking a product. If Brand A gives a great product, but Brand B gives equally good product AND supports it well post sale - then the choice is clear. If we are talking specifically about JVX and Icarus NZ here, it is my experience that their customer service has improved greatly. Super fast delivery, good communication and a few good extras thrown in for free (3 weeks for a new JVX was my experience, your results may vary). I really hope this trend towards excellent customer service continues and we have two great companies offering awesome products and competing for our dollars as equals on all fronts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #8 November 25, 2009 Quote Why wouldn't you want to jump this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJbnagUfFg&feature=related? The speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well... If you freeze the video at about the 29 second mark, you will notice that this is a downwind swoop based off of the flags. Anything will go "fast" and "far" on a downwind swoop without much effort. Edit to add: But I'm sure you already knew that, Sangi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #9 November 25, 2009 Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4 Take no substitute ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaylorC 0 #10 November 25, 2009 that is just scary to watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #11 November 25, 2009 dude, that is badass Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #12 November 25, 2009 QuoteYo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb! Haha, well until they add the "surviving excessive wingloadings" event to swoop comps, I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #13 November 25, 2009 Quote I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft. Tell me a reason why should I fly ant sub 70 sq ft canopy. I got enough wing load even with a 105 anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 November 26, 2009 QuoteI think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft. I think for the 2010 season I will get a 67. That would put me at about 4.47:1. I bet I can make the biggest splash in Spaceland's pond! I've jumped a VX and a Velo. The I liked how the Velo opened and flew better then the VX. Simple as that. The fact that PD has outstanding customer service and has had outstanding customer service since I've been in the sport is an added bonus.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyshimas 0 #15 November 26, 2009 Some of the reasons are: 1. There is no demo program 2. JVX's haven't been out as long 3. Full sail packs huge so even if you got a demo what would you pack it in. You seem so sure that JVX is superior to velo and you don't fly either one of them. I guess its also trendy plus what's your flying style all these things have a say on decision. I would guess your decision would be biased towards velo even if you tried it, only because you have a "fuzzy" feeling when it come to JVX's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #16 November 26, 2009 Yeah I know I don't fly either of them, nor I will for a while... It's just that it sucks when everywhere you look, it's velo here, velo there, velo this, velo that.. PD team there, PD team here.. You get my point.. Would like some variety here and there..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g3ninfinite 0 #17 November 26, 2009 QuoteYeah I know I don't fly either of them, nor I will for a while... It's just that it sucks when everywhere you look, it's velo here, velo there, velo this, velo that.. PD team there, PD team here.. You get my point.. Would like some variety here and there... how does that suck? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #18 November 26, 2009 In a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry... Monopolists are never good.."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #19 November 26, 2009 QuoteIn a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry... Why would you call PD as a monopoly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #20 November 26, 2009 Everybody wants their products and they're the biggest canopy manufacturer.. They may not fully be that, but they seem to steadily grow towards that position.."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #21 November 26, 2009 BS. There are zillions of other canopy manufacturers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YISkyDive 0 #22 November 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteIn a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry... Why would you call PD as a monopoly? I'm going to go out on a limb and say he’s got a point. I would love to see canopy market share figures but since we don’t have that observation is all I got. For every Safire there are many more Sabre2s, for every XF2 that are at least an equal amount or more Katans, for every JVX / VX / Xaos there must be way more Velos. I don't know if monopoly is the right word but I think there is no contest to whom has the largest market share and not by a small percentage. PD makes a good product and people like the service associated with it but at the same time has the cost of a canopy increased as much as the pricing they have passed onto the customer over the last 5 years? I don't know the answer to that but its food for thought. Edited to add: BTW to the OT: I like my Velo a lot. It's a personal choice as I flew Xf2s for awhile as well. The VX / JVX just had a different recovery characteristic that I personally did not like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #23 November 26, 2009 PD has a big piece of the market, but they are no where near to qualifying as a monopoly. You need to get out more. There is a variety of canopies out there. I don't understand why anyone would dislike a company simply by the size of their market share. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #24 November 26, 2009 QuoteIn a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry... You're crazy if you think that's true. First off, they've never made any moves to create a monopoly. They've never run another company out of business, and they've never bought another company to eliminate the competition. What they did was run their company the right way. The built quality products, offered superior customer service, and obviously watched their costs to keep the accountants happy. What about Icarus? They introduced the Z-po x braced canopy, the FX years ago. Then they had the VX and the Crossfire. All we're hugely popular, and they had a shot at a good slice of the market, but they blew it. Somebody bought this company or sold that compay, then there was 'Icarus here' and Icarus there', and the customers have been suffering ever since. I would be willing to be that if Icarus had opened a US office, where they build, sold and servied their products, they'd have a much bigger piece of the pie. What about Flight Concepts? They made the Manta, which used to be the gold standard for student canopies, and they had a line of successful Crew canopies, which was great, but where was their Sabre or Sabre2? What did they have to compete with the Stiletto or Spectre? The answer is nothing. Maybe if they had stayed with the times, and invested in R&D, they might be on par with PD today. PD just did everything right, and the market responded. Years ago a recent AFF grad was asking one of the instructors about buying his first rig, and mentioned some sort of Icarus or Persicion canopy he read about, and the instructor told him, "If PD don't make it, you don't need it". I agree 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #25 November 26, 2009 Can you please give me direct examples of how PD customer service is good and how Icarus service is bad?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
