when to use rears???

[swoopfly 5]

hey all


i was just curious about this and wanted to see if my logic was correct...after flying many canopys and downsizing some, i have came to the conclusion that i only need to start landing on rears when i reach a small enough canopy that can surf long enough to use them. I have flew my rears and even expiremented with landing them some. Do you really just need to be flying a velocity before rears will help you? my canopy glides in rears for a short distance then just kinda stalls out. Do i just need to wait for a canopy that can surf 300 feet before rears would be useful to me???

[BMFin 0]

Personally I think the key question is the recovery arc of the canopy you are flying.

If the canopy has a long recovery arc you might need to use rears for a more effective recovery that transalates the vertical speed to horisontal in an effective way.

But if the canopy has a rather short recovery (in other words no additional input for a smooth recovery is needed) then IMO there really isnt any real need for rears..

IMO a lot of people use rears even if they dont benefit them really / makes no difference for them..
I have found the XF2 109 recovery arc short and IMO there is no need for rears at all. (WL 1.8ish)

This is the way I see it, but Im naturally receptive for discussion about this...

[yoink 321]

Being able to land on your rears is something that many people suggest you should be able to do before downsizing your canopy...

If you bust a brake line, having that skill saves you a reserve ride at the very least!

[swoopfly 5]

i was referring to using rears for swooping and on landing.
i am aware that you can use them to fly your canopy and pull it out of a dive if need be. But when it comes to landing and using your rears to surf and stay in full flight horizontal until you need to go to toggles. Do people only really need rears when you have a wing fast enough that it actually helps you??? like i have said i have landed my rears but it glides a short distance and then stalls... i could see where it would help if i was screaming in at 60 miles an hour on a 90 but i dont think rears will help me on landing with the canopy i am on (katana 135). is my assumption right in this aspect....just curious and wanting some feedback, .... did you swoopers only start worrying about rear riser landings once you were under a wing that had the speed to use them??

[FreeFlyer2100 0]

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Being able to land on your rears is something that many people suggest you should be able to do before downsizing your canopy...

If you bust a brake line, having that skill saves you a reserve ride at the very least!

To piggy back on this if you lose a brake line or decide to do a rear riser landing pick your landing spot carefully. I watched someone at the bridge this weekend lose both brake toggles and then rear riser flared at the edge of the river/landing area. Let's just say the thump that they made sounded very painful and they were helped away. If they had decided to land in the river they would probably be just fine, except VERY cold, damn it was a cold weekend.

[Couloirman 0]

hmmmm, purposeful rear riser landings with a skydiving canopy with both brake lines still attached seems like it would be easier than on a slider down base jump where you lost both toggles. Wouldn't the trailing edge of the canopy be a lot more stable with the toggles holding them down than without, even though it wouldn't really seem like they are doing anything if they've got a few inches of slack behind them like a canopy is supposed to have? Just my intuition, not stating a fact.

Anyone else agree/disagree?

[jakee 1,254]

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Wouldn't the trailing edge of the canopy be a lot more stable with the toggles holding them down than without,

In my experience, yes.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[swoopfly 5]

well i posted this under the swooping and canopy control section, is there any swoopers or canopy pilots who would like to chime in on the post that i made....thanks

(i guess you guys are to busy in the air swooping to be on here answering questions)

[Brains 2]

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well i posted this under the swooping and canopy control section, is there any swoopers or canopy pilots who would like to chime in on the post that i made....thanks

(i guess you guys are to busy in the air swooping to be on here answering questions)

Most of the top swoopers in the country are competing at nationals right now
I can tell you that i started learning how to use my rear risers for landing purposes and for swooping early on. I taught myself how to do it on a cobalt 135 and then carried that on to my CF@ 109 and my Katana 107. I will tell you that a lot of people learning to use them tend to hold on to them too long before they transition to toggles. If you are stalling your canopy on rears then you are either putting in too much input or holding onto them too long. A canopy will stall at a higher speed on rears than with toggles. Be careful out there and don't do what the rest of us did, get coaching!

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[skyshimas 0]

i can only share my experience. I started playing with rear riser landings on CF2- 119 but I wasn't consistent on using them-only once in a while. The reason I did so was mentioned earlier- shortish recovery arc and it didn't feel safe to do it all the time.The gap between the perfect and not so much was too slim for my comfort. Oh I acctually made couple landings on rears on CF2- 139.
Once I borrowed xaos27-98 and made only couple jumps that I felt it was safe and beneficial to fly rears. And I'v flown them ever since. On the other hand my friend been landing rears since he had sabre2 150. So I guess it is a personal choice.
I believe that there is really no ture benefit in using the rears on non HP canopies and even CF's. I can't talk about katanas because i haven't jumped them that much. I think that on non XB canopies which have positive recoverie arc rear riser usage is much more delicate. In other words you got to be on the money to get any benefit and if you give just a tiny bit too much input you are going up and loosing speed. Just my thoughts.

[skyshimas 0]

Forgot to mention. I'v seen too many beginner swoopers who learned how to use rears were "over using" them. Which was no matter what the situation was they tried to salvage it on rears when it was time for toggles. Rears for performance enhancement and toggles for healthy bones hehe.

[Pendragon 1]

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I have found the XF2 109 recovery arc short and IMO there is no need for rears at all. (WL 1.8ish

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Not my experience at all with the same canopy at that wingloading. I use rears all the time with my Crossfire2 109, and with good results.

Rears won't help you much if you're not going fast enough (so sub 270 degree turns aren't going to give you the benefit on rears), or if you have poor technique (don't time it right, provide enough input etc). The idea is to force the canopy to recover faster once the pilot has begun to swing back under the canopy, which is accomplished by using the rears to raise the angle of attack; consequently the ideal initiation height is very slightly lower than if rears aren't being used. However, using rears is not a method to bail from a low turn.

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BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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