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CrazyL

Banned hookturns. Which turbine dz's have banned hookturns?

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Here on the Emerald Isle "Hookturn" has largely become a derogatory word to describe in general terms what a muppet does just before they femur.
up until the point of impact and or sudden onset of IPA it is normally called either an "Approach" "high performance landing" "Swoop" or "Low turn"

here hookturns are also the kind of turn that initiate a group of "experienced" canopy pilots running towards the landing area, has non whuffo onlookers gasping and cringing, the manifestor reaching for the phone, and the poor starving packers listening for the WHUMP while looking towards your locker wondering how much money is in your wallet before you actually impact.

previous to that becoming the common usage here hookturn described an inadvisable "hook" shaped turn often through 180 degrees, normally initiated with a sharp application of toggles (less often risers)low to the ground that required toggle input in order to recover level flight to avoid impact.

Anybody else got a good description of a "hook turn" ??

your good! Good explanation but still how come no one yet has a description of what a 'hookturn' is that is so easy to grasp? It's like describing a feeling. the packers I know are'nt poor. So far every single jump i've done i've held onto the education I got the very first day, flare. You know what that is? Same as 'application of toggles low to the ground in order to recover level flight to avoid impact. Same or not? Same. If you flare in due time before impact you walk away. No flare= broken and/or beaten by the earth and/ or death..

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As far as I know he is still welcome at Skydive Dallas.B|

Certainly, and am still welcome at all 50+ dz's i've visited other than the 4 mentioned. Actually, the one in Houston will allow me again so it's 3 dz's not welcomed at. Well, maybe i could go back to mile hi since Jeff Sands flew he and another pilot into the ground killing them both.

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on a 180 approach or less, you never turn your back on where you are ultimately going.

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I don't believe that is true. On a 180 your back IS to where you will be landing so yes it is a blind spot. Even if for only a few seconds you are turned completely away from your landing area. Anything over a 90 to a 180 technically has some blind spot/your back to the landing area although not completely.

That is if you were in straight level flight the whole time. I like 180's for flying over the same path i'm gonna take after the 180. I still think a straight up 90 degree pattern has a good place at a dz that should encompass most of the dz and an area for high performance pilots would be sweet.

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The perceived advantage (from a collision point of view) is that in a 180, you can see early enough into the turn to bail and land crosswind (or whatever) if you've made a mistake and the airspace you would be entering is otherwise occupied. This isn't so easy for a 270/540.

True

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I am NOT advocating people toss out monster turns in traffic. In fact I don't think you should toss out more than about a 90 unless you are basically by your self (alternate landing area, first down on a 182 load with only two other midgets, low pass, etc).

True dat. Go with the flow in traffic. But if I go clear airspace, can I go crazy with however big I feel like going with my final final final approach. I might like to do a series combo to get it going on and then slingshot into an elegant swoop landing with the greatest of ease on my feet. But in traffic, dude i'm going with the flow.

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Recently I was banned from a turbine dz with a swoop pond for doing a 'little hookturn over the pond'. I want to know before I go to a dz if i'm banned or not.



They told me it was just detention for the day.... not banned forever were you?

Never mind I just read in another tread perma-banned. Sorry to hear it Loco.

Apparently no bird flock tryouts or record for me vectorboy. I'm a banned bird from Lake Elsinore. Not banded bird like Mel. Hammo's got some people banded (in the possie club) and some are banned like me. Just go to Perris and if you ask around you'll find the banned from Elsinore are there. I just made the long list, surprising. I'm on the list to be called for when Elsinore 's last day of being a skydiving center is. I plan to be there. The people will reunite. I'll go back there when Hammo leaves. If they still have a swoop pond.

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From a non-technical/common accepted point of view hook turn means what? toggles?



There isn't a single meaning.

The FAA says they start below 200 feet, turn more than 60 degrees, and have at least 45 degrees of roll or pitch change. Some DZOs call anything over 90 degrees a hook turn. Some think it's any turning speed inducing maneuver.

A lot of people would say that it's an abrupt speed inducing turn. That's a bad idea because canopies change, density altitudes change, and you can get more speed with better accuracy other ways.

But when "hook turns" were "black death" better ways weren't common knowledge, you couldn't take a class, and enough people got away with it enough of the time lots of us did it for oodles of fun.

I've seen video of my canopy top skin (Batwings were built with psychedelic fabrics on top in a chord-wise construction, and span-wise white and green stripes on the bottom. PD's Stiletto was better but not nearly as pretty) from the ground without all of me in the picture. I always yanked on a front riser because we knew toggles weren't a good idea and it worked until I got a stiletto. It was lots of fun but there are faster, more reliable ways to get speed.

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yep the batwings added a different and cool looking color for parachutes and flew pretty well too. I know i've been in trouble after having oodles of fun so many times, it's all been worth it. Hookturns are still black death man what you talking about used to be. i'll connect so many tricks andlay down a black death low down and dirty in the right conditions with so much exhileration and control that even the old hookturners that are left will drop there jaw and say. wow, that's black death.

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Is the Ranch on the list?

No idea, but i have some great news! I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance!

Oh and the pond swoop is this weekend.

Oh ya! Ya gonna compete? No choking this time! You know your good at rip'n that pond. By now you've been in enough comps to shake the comp anxiety and have fun swoop'n pond. Am I right? Get U some bro! And tell your Russian friend that also wears yellow and the crome helmet that Crazy Larry says have a good time and rip it up! And to Pya, get some water this time girl and I mean just on her toes yo! and if you see the fat man and his lipy wife, tell them I miss their hospitality. Going to the dentist right now and then to wrap up some tour gear, Later

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>imho there is absolutely NO advantage to doing a 180 over a 270 in terms
>of being able to see other people and even being able to adjust if low.

That may well be true. Bryan Burke has said that he would have no problem banning 180's as well if someone can demonstrate that there's no advantage to them over 270's.

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>imho there is absolutely NO advantage to doing a 180 over a 270 in terms
>of being able to see other people and even being able to adjust if low.

That may well be true. Bryan Burke has said that he would have no problem banning 180's as well if someone can demonstrate that there's no advantage to them over 270's.



Well then why not ban 180s and allow 270s in the name of safety? :P

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>Well then why not ban 180s and allow 270s in the name of safety?

Cause you just said they were both as bad!

I have no problem with 90's, 180's, 270's, 360's, 720's etc - as long as they are made away from where people are flying standard patterns.

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Oh ya! Ya gonna compete? No choking this time! You know your good at rip'n that pond. By now you've been in enough comps to shake the comp anxiety and have fun swoop'n pond. Am I right? Get U some bro! And tell your Russian friend that also wears yellow and the crome helmet that Crazy Larry says have a good time and rip it up! And to Pya, get some water this time girl and I mean just on her toes yo! and if you see the fat man and his lipy wife, tell them I miss their hospitality. Going to the dentist right now and then to wrap up some tour gear, Later


Chrome helmet = Pondre. ;)

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Why dont you suck it up a accept the fact that you fucked up and got yourself banned, they made many accouncements to the DZ to stay away from the swoop area and to land in the main landing area but you disregarded that all and swooped the dead guy.... You claimed it was to pay respect but it wasnt, its clear the way you talk here that you didnt respect him you landed there against the DZ announcements because you wanted to swoop, thats it nothing more now youre in here stirring up shit trying to make them sound like the big bad DZ.... Youre a grown man for gods sake, you fucked up and got banned... own it.

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Why dont you suck it up a accept the fact that you fucked up and got yourself banned, they made many accouncements to the DZ to stay away from the swoop area and to land in the main landing area but you disregarded that all and swooped the dead guy.... You claimed it was to pay respect but it wasnt, its clear the way you talk here that you didnt respect him you landed there against the DZ announcements because you wanted to swoop, thats it nothing more now youre in here stirring up shit trying to make them sound like the big bad DZ.... Youre a grown man for gods sake, you fucked up and got banned... own it.



way to register a new profile name to talk smack dude...
http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

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Why dont you suck it up a accept the fact that you fucked up and got yourself banned, they made many accouncements to the DZ to stay away from the swoop area and to land in the main landing area but you disregarded that all and swooped the dead guy.... You claimed it was to pay respect but it wasnt, its clear the way you talk here that you didnt respect him you landed there against the DZ announcements because you wanted to swoop, thats it nothing more now youre in here stirring up shit trying to make them sound like the big bad DZ.... Youre a grown man for gods sake, you fucked up and got banned... own it.

Done. Read my reply to your post in the safety and training forum, i've answered this post in that forum. Does an unfinished profile mean you can't or won't 'own up to your own name? It's pretty easy to figure out who I am in my profile. I own up to my name, these threads i've started here, the hookturns, bannings,... You probably know me and are also still a bit upset from that day too. We got something in common. That's a good reason to have a thread on these forums.

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