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CrazyL

Banned hookturns. Which turbine dz's have banned hookturns?

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google hookturn. A 'hookturn' usually has a resulting 'swoop'. Both terms 'hookturn and swoop' are specialized terms used for specialized tricks that some skydivers perform. Hookturns have not killed any skydivers yet. It's the misjudgement of the canopy pilots altitude and recovery from such radical maneuvers close to the ground. If you don't know what a hookturn is yet then you probably won't be banned for doing a hookturn. In the U.K. a news agency reported about a skydiver doing a 'banned flip'. Even though I believe I know what the reporters are trying to convey I still had never heard the term 'flip' used among skydivers to convey 'hookturn ' till I read the news report. A hookturn may be performed with any single control input or a combination of control inputs to the canopy. If done too low to the ground a jumper could end up seriously injured or dead. The most deaths in skydiving for close to 20 years now has been the result of a misjudged hookturn. Sure skydivers have come up with other ways to seriously injure and/or kill themselves, but the result of a hookturn done to low to recover prior to inheriting the earth has been the most major killer of skydivers.

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I'm sure you know it exsist, but on the DZ locator it will have if they allow hook turns at there DZ.
But it always a good idea to ask any way just before doing so.
Like our DZ does allow them but we have seperate locations for swooping and normal approaches.
There have been way to many canopy collisions and its just a good idea to ask.
oops is way to late.
I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!

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Here on the Emerald Isle "Hookturn" has largely become a derogatory word to describe in general terms what a muppet does just before they femur.
up until the point of impact and or sudden onset of IPA it is normally called either an "Approach" "high performance landing" "Swoop" or "Low turn"

here hookturns are also the kind of turn that initiate a group of "experienced" canopy pilots running towards the landing area, has non whuffo onlookers gasping and cringing, the manifestor reaching for the phone, and the poor starving packers listening for the WHUMP while looking towards your locker wondering how much money is in your wallet before you actually impact.

previous to that becoming the common usage here hookturn described an inadvisable "hook" shaped turn often through 180 degrees, normally initiated with a sharp application of toggles (less often risers)low to the ground that required toggle input in order to recover level flight to avoid impact.

Anybody else got a good description of a "hook turn" ??
"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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Bro, i am more interested in a topic named something like: "Dropzones that banned Crazy Larry" :)

hehehe me too. Is the Ranch on the list?



me thinks that will have to do with who holds the conch at the ordained time that you show up....

I kinda still miss having you around :-P

BTW I did a solid on that camera suit bought one that actually fit and gave that one free of charge to Dirty D...

Cheers

Dave
http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

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The thought process is that, by restricting turns over 180 degrees, it is not possible to manouvre through a blind spot; ie. on a 180 approach or less, you never turn your back on where you are ultimately going.

I don't believe that Z-Hills needs to restrict turns >180 degrees like this in a blanket fashion: it's just a gesture to appease certain people. Their PLA is big enough and could easily accommodate segregated landing areas. It's just that the swoop pond is already close to the packing area, and I'm sure there are too many old farts that don't swoop that wouldn't stand for being told they now have to land 2 mins walk away for a straight-in approach... :S

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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on a 180 approach or less, you never turn your back on where you are ultimately going.

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I don't believe that is true. On a 180 your back IS to where you will be landing so yes it is a blind spot. Even if for only a few seconds you are turned completely away from your landing area. Anything over a 90 to a 180 technically has some blind spot/your back to the landing area although not completely.


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Not what I said.

On any rotation up to a 180, your manouvre takes your landing more into your field of view. Anything over a 180 (eg, a 270) and your landing point moves further our of your field of vision (as you turn away).

The perceived advantage (from a collision point of view) is that in a 180, you can see early enough into the turn to bail and land crosswind (or whatever) if you've made a mistake and the airspace you would be entering is otherwise occupied. This isn't so easy for a 270/540.
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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[The advantage (from a collision point of view) is that in a 180, you can see early enough into the turn to bail]


I don't agree with this. I believe on a 180 you are lower and turn quicker with less margin for error.
On a 270, you have more time to see and bail to alternate area. The turn is started higher with the ability to see the normal traffic pattern. 180 is not a normal downwind, base leg set up which does not allow you to see all that is going on.

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I believe on a 180 you are lower and turn quicker with less margin for error.



That and you are flying directly away from the landing direction traffic until you complete your turn. I am NOT advocating people toss out monster turns in traffic. In fact I don't think you should toss out more than about a 90 unless you are basically by your self (alternate landing area, first down on a 182 load with only two other midgets, low pass, etc).
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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There is no collision advantage in a 180 over anything higher. First doing a 270 gives you much more room to adjust if needed as others have said.

Also think about how long you are with your back to the landing area during a 180 versus a 270. In a 180 you have your back turned while you are setting up. In a 270 your back is only turned for that part of your turn which happens much faster than it takes to set your 180. Hence your back is to the landing area for a much shorter time during a 270 than a 180.

imho there is absolutely NO advantage to doing a 180 over a 270 in terms of being able to see other people and even being able to adjust if low.

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Recently I was banned from a turbine dz with a swoop pond for doing a 'little hookturn over the pond'. I want to know before I go to a dz if i'm banned or not.



They told me it was just detention for the day.... not banned forever were you?

Never mind I just read in another tread perma-banned. Sorry to hear it Loco.

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Bro, i am more interested in a topic named something like: "Dropzones that banned Crazy Larry" :)

hehehe me too. Is the Ranch on the list?



me thinks that will have to do with who holds the conch at the ordained time that you show up....

I kinda still miss having you around :-P

BTW I did a solid on that camera suit bought one that actually fit and gave that one free of charge to Dirty D...

Cheers

Dave

Dude, sweet. I had heard that you gave the suit to dirty D. Got me stoked for dirty D and your good karma points. Glad your suit fits. Tony H and dirty D are closer to size than you and Tony H thats for sure. Ya, and I get the 'holder of the conch' deal. Still got money on my account there cause i'm gonna come back and jump for fun sometime instead of all work and no play. Worked my ass off there. Had some fun but not like I could have. There's some serious talent at your dz. The size of the bonfires, hell ya. People were fun and friendly till Ms. A type went all emotional on me and I just did'nt take her emotional crap. Sorry, I liked it there to. Gotta love JoeBird. Think'n back, man there's a bunch of people there I really like. Let me know when A type and her man are going on vacation. Maybe the conch will be left behind and i'll show up to hold it. cheap flights from right up the street from where I live to jfk.

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I'm sure you know it exsist, but on the DZ locator it will have if they allow hook turns at there DZ.
But it always a good idea to ask any way just before doing so.
Like our DZ does allow them but we have seperate locations for swooping and normal approaches.
There have been way to many canopy collisions and its just a good idea to ask.
oops is way to late.

I did'nt know about the hookturn allowance on dz locator. never used dz locator, thanks thats a big help.

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