jerolim 7 #1 September 17, 2008 Hi, I have problems landing Springo 140 (loaded @1.25) on no-wind day. I have about 100 jumps on it and I always fly straight in. I was told that duration of flare should be 3 seconds and that I should finish at ground level. But I usually have to run it or I slide on my but. I've tried adding some speed with front risers (flying straight in) but Springo recovers in 2 seconds Also, recovery after front riser or toggle turn is very quick,... I am not interested in swooping, I am just looking how to improve my landings. I am even thinking of buying Sabre2 150 or Pilot 150. There is no one to help me on my DZ (only accuracy jumpers). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #2 September 17, 2008 QuoteI was told that duration of flare should be 3 seconds and that I should finish at ground level. But I usually have to run it or I slide on my but. Your info might be out of date. That wisdom can be true for canopies made from low porosity(F111) material. You should be able to execute a 2 stage flare with your ZP canopy at your wing load. Stage 1: eliminate vertical descent - start flying on level with the ground Stage 2: reduce horizontal speed and keep flying as long as you can QuoteI am even thinking of buying Sabre2 150 or Pilot 150. Those are good canopies, but you would face the very same problems again. There are excellent articles in the Safety/Landing section. Filming and reviewing your landing would help also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #3 September 18, 2008 Can you explain, please? Is this done by only using toggles or do I have to use back risers during flare ? I've looked in Landing section and I couldn't find anything about 2 stage flare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #4 September 18, 2008 It shouldn´t take you from 0% to 100% toggleinput 3 seconds on that canopy - this is too long. Try to start your flare a bit lower and make it take just ~two seconds. In addition try to execute the last ~30% of your flare(from ~70% to 100% toggleinput)unusually fast/all in a sudden/"explosive". While doing so you shouldn´t try to end up at 100% input the moment you touch the ground but sooner, about 2-3 feet from the ground, if in doubt even higher. Give it a try and feel free to get back to me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #5 September 18, 2008 my opinion is that internet coaching is dangerous business, specially with people of different mothertongue.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #6 September 18, 2008 A 2 stage flare has nothing to do with risers. Do NOT try to flare a Springo with back risers it stalls VERY easily You should be able to land a springo just fine, with or without adding speed using frontrisers, provided the canopy and the lines are not in bad shape/out of trim and you're not overloading it. It's best to get someone to video your landings and the get a good debrief from someone who knows what he's looking at. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cefey 1 #7 September 23, 2008 I have only few jumps on springo. As I remember, i had yo flare realy quick. But find some videos in internet of landings with springo, or even better take a canopy curse, cause you should be able to find out this kind of stuff on your own, otherwise this canopy may be too danger for you, IMO. Pilot, sabre2, safire2 is awesome canopys btw!Blue skys and soft landings to all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReSiStAnCe 0 #8 September 29, 2008 Quote In addition try to execute the last ~30% of your flare(from ~70% to 100% toggleinput)unusually fast/all in a sudden/"explosive". .. That is of course when you know where the stall-point is... otherwise you might find your canopy unusually fast/all in a sudden/"explosive" behind you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzthieve 0 #9 September 29, 2008 I got over 200 jumps with a springo 140 loaded at about 1.3 and at that time I usually also came flying straight in. To my impression the springo had a very short flare range and very little bottom flare power so to me it wasn't the easiest canopy to land. A duration of 3 seconds to flare seems a bit too long, the best thing you can do is to discover your total flare range and use it as optimally as possibly. I usualy didn't have to run my landings, perhaps you're not flaring it completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #10 October 31, 2008 I also forgot to mention that this rig doesn't have kill-line or bungee, because genius who originally ordered rig from pdf wanted standard bridle and ZP pilot chute,... Could this be also one of reasons for 'low flare power' ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 October 31, 2008 Quote Could this be also one of reasons for 'low flare power' ? I got some trouble with my kill-line PC on a Pilot150. If the PC was not collapsed I got a weak flare or a terrible landing......so what is your guess? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #12 November 17, 2008 I've installed kill-line pc, made 3 jumps, and difference is huge!! I have a lot of more speed and more lift at the end. But most obvious change is when I pull front riser for a hook turn - turns are steeper and gained speed remains for much longer period and I was able to do a nice swoop from 90 deg. turn. Also canopy is really stable now during flight and much easier to control. I've loosen my chest strap and leaned forward for the swoop but I seam to forget to put one leg in front of another for stability, but I was able to do standup landings like this also. I love my springo 140 :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #13 November 17, 2008 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #14 January 22, 2009 I just got line trim specification from PdF and it looks like some lines are even 9 cm shorter. Specification says 1 cm is tolerance. Lines looks white and in good shape. Should I keep jumping or it is possible to retrim ? Could this be one of reasons for low flare power ? Should I stop investing in old canopy design and buy PD ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #15 January 22, 2009 QuoteCould this be one of reasons for low flare power ? Do you have enough slack on the breake lines? Quote Should I stop investing in old canopy design and buy PD ?? Its not really a popular canopy. If you want to use it for at least 200-300 get it relined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 January 22, 2009 Quote Its not really a popular canopy. If you want to use it for at least 200-300 get it relined. Only a viable option if you can get the lineset from another source than PdF With their current lack of customer service I'd just keep the springo as a car cover and get something else to jump. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #17 January 23, 2009 Yes, Atair is closest to me. http://www.basetroll.com/ I talked to them they will do complete relining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JanuszPS 0 #18 January 26, 2009 I've sent my Cobalt for reline (to Slovenia) after two shocking openings and I must say that not only openings have improved but landings also are better (not much but noticeable). JanuszBack to Poland... back home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #19 January 29, 2009 I was convinced that Springo has very old design, and poor flare. And that I would't be satisfied after relining. So it looks like I'll be buying Atair radical 135. I hope that openings on radical are better than cobalt openings,... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JanuszPS 0 #20 January 29, 2009 I don't know springo and in fact I'm not intend to try one. That's maybe because some bad opinion about the wing which I heard in the meantime... If you get Radical, give me some info as I think to get one myself... (120) My Cobalt opens nicely (after reline), before it was a wild animal... I like it very much. from this forum it seams that the Radical is something similar to Cobalt Comp (not the same but similar). Give a phone call to Stane and he will answer your questions. Regards JanuszBack to Poland... back home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #21 January 29, 2009 It actually flares excellent, however the design is very prone to collapsing in turbulence so that's why I will not jump one anymore after a season of jumping a Springo 120. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #22 June 17, 2009 I really must to reply to this thread. So I've got my Atair Radical 135 3 weeks ago. I did about 10 jumps with it so far. I didn't have 1 bad landing, no running out, no sliding on my butt. All nice stand up landings,... Flare on Radical is great. Only difference is that during 90 deg. turn it eats up 200 feet of altitude. I even managed to do hop & pop and pulled from bad position, and canopy just did open in slow controled spin. No big deal! I belive that this canopy is fantastic. Thank you Stane for doing great job ! I don't know what was problem with my springo ? It is older design and it was out of trim,... However problem was with canopy not me Maybe I'll reline Springo and use it for ground launching. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floflo 0 #23 June 17, 2009 Quote I don't know what was problem with my springo ? It is older design and it was out of trim,... However problem was with canopy not me Maybe I'll reline Springo and use it for ground launching. The Springo is actually a very good canopy, it has nice openings, can make you come back from very long spots and is very playful. The big con for me is that it has a very short recovery arc, but some like it like that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #24 June 18, 2009 Do you want to buy one ? Maybe on my Springo only problem was line trim,... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armyranger 0 #25 October 2, 2009 Quote Do you want to buy one ? Maybe on my Springo only problem was line trim,...[/replly Is this the same Springo you are trading me that you stated was in great like new shape? Has anyone ever flown a Springo with wing loading it at 1.6? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
