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aresye

Looking for more info. on GL

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So thanks to my buddy, I got into skydiving, and have loved every minute of it! I'm getting close to my first 100 jumps, and recently stumbled upon the GL discipline.

I do want to get into BASE sometime in the future, but I'm still in no hurry to get there, as my canopy accuracy is still not the best, but I am getting better. I'm thinking of putting my desire to get into BASE on hold a little longer, as I think GL is a better stepping stone to it. Honing canopy control & accuracy, while not having to deal with potential off-heading openings, and other opening emergencies. On top of that, it will allow me to work on flying a canopy at lower altitudes, and being able to site smaller landing areas.

Unfortunately, I won't be in CA much longer, as I'm transferring to Jacksonville, FL sometime this fall. I likely will not be able to attend the couse. Anybody know of any GL mentors that skydive at either San Diego or Elsinore, that might be able to get together sometime, and discuss how I can get into it? Jacksonville, FL isn't a very good location, as it's relatively flat, but I live in State College, PA, and there's definitely a few hills, not to mention a decent ski slope that's closed during the summer.

As with BASE, I don't want to rush into GL either. I do want some more information on it though, either by a mentor, or some places I can practice relatively safely. As with anything dealing with altitude, I know it's dangerous, and the potential for injury is much higher than skydiving. Any tips for how to get into it safely when the course is not an option?
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

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There is nothing wrong with you wanting to Ground Launch and BASE jump in the future. But ... Ground Launching is NOT a safe activity and since you tell us you are having accuracy landing issues, maybe you should concentrate more on your skydiving canopy control. Get another 400-500 jumps under your belt in a much more controlled environment before you decide to launch a canopy off of a mountain.

Ground Launching is full of unknowns. Stall that canopy or get caught with that unexpected gust of wind over a boulder field or trees could be the last thing you ever do.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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I understand GL is a dangerous activity, and that the possibility of getting injured is much higher. I have no doubts about that. Just want to make sure I approach it in a manner that minimizes those risks. I'm not the kind of guy so enthused about getting into it, that I'll take my canopy to the nearest hill, and try to fly it down.

As for my accuracy, it's not the best. Right now I can pick out a spot before I start my downwind, and land within 5m of it, but I want to dial that in to about 1m if I can.

I also forgot to ask one question in my original post. I jump a Spectre 190, loaded about 1.2. I have heard of people GL F111 7-Cells before, but will the Spectre require a different practice? Wll the slope have to be steeper, or will it not make that much of a difference? The Spectre is a 7-Cell afterall, but from what I've read, and experienced under canopy, is that its glide angle isn't as steep as most 7-Cells.
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

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Spectres are definitely ground launchable (preferrably in the 1.4 to 1.6 wing loading range). People will want to remove their slider and their PC/bridle to cut down on drag (plus it will be easier to launch without the slider getting in the way). Plus while I have seen people do it, I would not recommend hauling up a skydiving rig complete with a packed reserve on a Ground Launching expedition. An empty BASE container (what I have used) or a specialize Ground Launching harness is a much better option.

Now there are better canopies for Ground Launching than the Spectre (which is still a decent launchable canopy), but slope and wind conditions are huge influences for successful or unsuccessful launches. Plus slope and wind also helps determine if you are doing a forward or a rear launch. Finally open nose canopies (like a Spectre) are good for low to moderate wind days, while close nose canopies are better for higher wind days. But on windy days, not only do you have to watch the possible turbulence, but you absolutely must kite your wing first outside of the harness before you ever think on getting in the harness. If you can not control the canopy outside of the harness (due to the high winds), you have absolutely no business being in the harness. That is unless you don't mind being dragged off to Kansas with Dorthy.

I don't know, Ground Launching is 100% fun, but it is also 100% not safe. Gain more skydiving canopy experience and then when you are ready seek formal Ground Launch training from knowledgeable instructors. There is a lot to learn and the margin for error is pretty slim.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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As others have said get alot more skydiving done. you should be able to hit the pea every time in all winds. A spectra is ok but a heavy canopy. So you wIll need a nice head wind. I would recomend doing heeps Of ground handling. Get your canopy out on flat ground. and learn to reverse launch and get the canopy over your head with your eyes closed anD keep it up without having to look at it. That is the most important part for you now. my .02

Also watch lots of videos of ground handeling and flying so you can see what your getting into.

Here is my video from flying in the French Alps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y__tioyyo4Q

Have fun start slow and get lots more skydiving done first.

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Thanks for the tips, and nice video btw!

So while I'm building up my skydives and landing accuracy, is there any harm to practice kiting my canopy in a flat, open field?
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

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I don't know the SoCal area or DZ's that well, but I've heard there are a few people that GL around there. Ask around at the DZ as the people that are out having the most fun are not always checking these forums daily. I've also read that Jim Slaton is still running camps at the Ground Launch Center and could help you out and that's a great way to learn how to do it. That's what I did a year and a half ago.

I don't know if it's the best way to help you get into BASE, but GL is a lot of fun and I know a few BASE jumpers in NorCal that also GL. Work on your canopy skills at the DZ. Accuracy, quick and correct canopy control action are important for both GL and BASE. Learn how to swoop and more about your gear and flying a canopy. GL is a lot like a long swoop down a mountain. I don't think GL is safe but it can be done without hurting yourself if you're skilled and trained well.

Gear selection depends a lot on the site and winds. I usually use an old BASE harness with a Sabre 170 loaded around 1.35, but I've used a number of other canopies. An old flat gliding 9-cell like a Sabre or a Stilleto work well. I've launched a Spectre and it wasn't nearly as much fun. It's hard on your gear so you could look on the classifieds for something cheap to beat up.
BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

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First of all brian sucks at GL so dont listen to him. If youre really serious and want to GL more than just a few times, get an old stilletto or sabre for like $300 and a crappy base rig. I think my whole GL setup cost me a total of $250 and it works just great, and doubles as an intentional cutaway rig. This video shows the dangers of GL including maniacal laughter. Someone else can make the clicky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUDoYM--PBA

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As has been stated, you need a good deal more skydiving experience before you even think about doing this. However, one place where you can get some good information about it in the mean time is HERE
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Thanks for the video. Yes indeed that is a danger.

So far I've been mainly getting myself comfortable with my canopy. I've recently started adding leans into the harness in order to improve my turns. Other than a 90 degree carve, I haven't attempted anything else with the front risers close to the ground. I'm definitely not comfortable getting into higher performance turns right now, especially since I don't have dive loops on my canopy yet (getting installed right now actually). My Spectre has relatively low front riser pressure, but it builds up, so anything greater than a 90 would be a very big hazard, as the risers can slip out of my hands.

Thanks a lot for the link Lou! As I've said earlier, you guys don't need to worry about me for the time being. I am going to approach this slowly, and likely won't begin until I get a couple hundred more jumps under my belt.
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

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I recently put some video on U-tube called Ground Launching Learning Curve. Type that into U-tube and have a look. I started with some training from Jim slatton then worked it out on a farm even getting some non skydivers to do it on gentle slopes. The video shows the learnign curve ending up with some mountain hill shots and yes even with one of my non skydive mates managing that. Apart from being sensible on the learnign curve - it like skydiving - has even a smaller window. It needs a sope of 40-50% with minimal obstructions g trees and some good landing options. Then it needs the wind between 5 knots and 15 coming up the hill in a stable way. If you are in an area where you can find a hill like that I'd advise it to support your skydiving canopy control and fun in itself. FInding the hill is the hard one. I did it in new Zealand. Now I live in Australia and they just dont have hills here as needed for GL that I can find anyway.

Warwick Thorn

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

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Yeah, I have to echo some people here and state that accuracy at speed is definitely a requirement for a lot of ground launching. There are site out there that will let you fly in a straight line and set it down anywhere. But generally, you're taking the landing areas you'd expect on a BASE jump (tiny footpaths, tons of obstacles, really uneven ground) and trying to plant a little skydiving main in there at 30mph.

You're best off with a combo of skydiving the hell out of the canopy you use for ground launching, and actually ground launching said canopy down smooth, consistent, obstacle-free slopes. As you develop a feel for speed close to the ground and the effects of your inputs on your canopy, you'll be able to more intuitively navigate more dynamic environments.

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