Mr. Bill wing loading

[baronn 111]

My girl and I have been doing some Mr.Bill jumps with a high rate of success. We have managed to pull of all that we have attempted and almost got a dock with a wingsuit flyer. Just curious on any thoughts about this. Our combined weight is around 350 under a 79 VX. We could use just a bit more vertical to really make this work.

[diablopilot 2]

Jump an FX.


And if you're really ready to be doing this sort of stunt, you probably can think of a better place to get advice.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rmarshall234 13]

Had a couple buddies try this at Brown Field many years ago with a Sabre I. Bad idea. The opening shock slammed George into Scotty and broke his femur as well as snapping 4 lines on his canopy. The poor guy had to cut-away from that and land his reserve with a broken leg. A different time and a different canopy for sure, but a good example of what can go wrong. As for wing loading...not sure but I would guess a bit more than 400 lbs under a 170.

[rhys 0]

I have thought about this stunt, but havn't even come close to trying,

Have you got any photos/video?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[hparrish 0]

Well it was a Sabre..................

[blade 0]

Hi !
I have only done 1 jump like this but I had never even thought possible to attempt it with a small main.
We used for that purpose a big student canopy around 260 sqft. Our total combined weight was around 420 lbs, so not even clsoe to your wingloadings!

I am quite surprised that the lineset can even cope with it!

Patrick

[gearless_chris 1]

I like it. It seems like doing a Mr.Bill with an elliptical canopy would work better than the old Sabre/Student rigs.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I like it. It seems like doing a Mr.Bill with an elliptical canopy would work better than the old Sabre/Student rigs.

The problem there is that Mr. Bill jumps can lead to bad body position on opening which in turn leads to line twists and spinning openings which combine to form cutaways. You don't want that.

Things can get especially exciting if Mr. Bill climbs on Sluggo's shoulders and pulls on lines. You really don't want that.

If you want to do a Mr. Bill (I admit that my sense of adventure is bigger than my sense of self preservation and to having done a successful Mr. Bill under a Stiletto 120 with 350+ pounds of suspended weight) you want a low exit speed so the opening forces are reasonable (an Otter is better than a King Air) and a big door (Otter again) so Sluggo and Mr, Bill can exit nice and stable with Sluggo pitching as soon as the pair are clear of the aircraft with a reasonablly low deployment speed.

The ideal canopy would be square (line twists probably won't cause it to spin up) and slow opening, like a Triathalon.

I got major line twists on a Mr. Bill out of a King Air with my Batwing 134, and if it had been my Stiletto it would have definitely spun up and needed chopping. On any other day the Batwing might have spun-up, and the Samurai might have. You don't want that.

Personally, if I was doing Mr. Bills under a small canopy and wanted a steeper glide path I'd try a 2:1 system on the front risers and if I couldn't hold that for long enough build a 4:1 system (top-ring from the 2:1, add a bottom ring, and then run the line through another ring just below the top ring)

[baronn 111]

I knew if I was patient, I'd get some real info. I like the idea of the pulley system. I was able to pick both of us out of the saddle, but couldn't hold it very long. You are correct on the setup. Otter has been our choice of aircraft along with a well versed pilot that knows what to do. Most exit speeds have been around 55MPH and there is almost no delay. Even under the VX the openings have been reasonable. I'm changing the risers and will look into the pulley setup. If we live, I'll keep everyone updated.

[hackish 8]

You may want to try an aggressive camera pack on your Mr. Bill since it should slow the opening a fair bit. I've done some playing with my main - packing it like a reserve and doing a camera man pack with an increasing number of rolls. With like 8 really tight rolls on each side of the nose it takes almost 1200' of sheer terror to open.

-Michael

[BlindBrick 0]

We used to do these fairly reguarly at my dz. What seemed to work best was getting the plane as slow as possible then having a third party who's familiar with IAD or PCA's to deploy the pc on exit. Usually was done with a borrowed student rig (250-280 sf) for sluggo but I've seen it done with sport mains in the 170-190 range too.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[hjumper33 0]

Done several on a crossfire 129 with probably about 350-400lbs on it.

[brianfry713 0]

Sounds like fun, don't die. I did one hanging onto a guy jumping a 90 VX. We were probably around 450 pounds put together. It spun after opening until I let go but didn't twist up. I was probably pulling on his harness off to the side we spun. It was also a cloudy day so we only got around 5,000 feet of exit altitude.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative