Looking for a fullface

[AggieDave 6]

I'm looking for a solid full face helmet that has good visibility. I've read the past posts about them and people's comments. I spent a little time trying on MTB DH and BMX helmets, but they all had a raised mouth guard that really bothered me in terms of visibility. All the skydiving helmets I've seen over the past 8 years offer absolutely nothing in real protection.

My trusty Pimpdaddy mindwarp showed the limits of its ability on Sunday when I hit the exit lip of the pond in Waller while grabbing my risers from a ghostrider and I launched forward still going in the neighborhood of 45mph. Luckily I broke my fall with my face, so there weren't any injuries, just some bumps, bruises and a really bitch'n video that I need to get a copy of.

So what are some other solutions that others have tried or use? Something lightweight with actual protection and good visibility.

I'm asking here instead of G&R since I'm asking specifically from a swooper standpoint.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[packing_jarrett 0]

Quote

I'm looking for a fullface and I spent a little time trying on MTB DH and BMX helmets, but they all had a raised mouth guard that really bothered me in terms of visibility. All the skydiving helmets I've seen over the past 8 years offer absolutely nothing in real protection.

Thats kind of like one big oxy moron. non skydiving helmets don't really cross over to well into skydiving yet the skydiving specific helmets don't meet the standards that swoopers want. Its almost like you have to sacrifice some qualities of one to gain another.

For me I use a factory diver with the shield removed. Great visibility, comfortable, but like you said has little protection in case of hard impact (but probably just as much or more as a mindwarp)

Na' Cho' Cheese

[AggieDave 6]

I understand that things don't typically cross over well, but I'm still searching. Hitting bike shops and the web.

I am thinking about getting something close from the DH or BMX world and modifying it to work for my needs.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Atom 0]

Hello

J was using Skysystem A3 for 700 jumps and liked it,but then j bougth FreeZRMark 2...

it is wery good..

No cut wisibillity corners,dytter on bouts ears,easy visir kloser and tigth fitt...for my bigg head..j am a 60 cm melon head..

Blue sky
Geir Meyer
Oslo
Norge

[superstu 0]

My factory diver saved me from a pretty hefty encounter with both a tree and the ground on multiple occassions, but maybe i just have a hard head and am unbelievably lucky

check out some kayaking helmets too, i have an open faced one from shred ready but i think i remember seeing some full face stuff.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[AggieDave 6]

That's the other thing, literally the only skydiving full face that fits my abnormally large noggin is the Mamba by Bonehead.

So far this is the only one worth a damn that I've found, but I'm going to have to cut the nose down for visibility.

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/shovelhead/1.jpg

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

That's the other thing, literally the only skydiving full face that fits my abnormally large noggin is the Mamba by Bonehead.

So far this is the only one worth a damn that I've found, but I'm going to have to cut the nose down for visibility.

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/shovelhead/1.jpg

Dave, that Pro-tec or the version without the visor is your best bet if impact protection is your goal. Other options are helmets designed for snowboarding. Since you have a rather large cranial housing unit, you might want to check out This link and the associated pages for info on helmets.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

Thanks. I wear a 7 3/4 hat size, so its pretty hard to find much of anything that isn't quite cramped.

The visor comes off of those Pro-tec and actually just about every FF BMX or DH helmet I've seen.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydemon2 0]

GIRO Remedy CF

http://www.giro.com/site/#/product/cycling/dirt/remedy_cf/


Large is 23.25" to 24.75" is that big enough for your mellon ?

It does have a rise at the top of the chin but its not as big as that pro tech, looks like it could be trimmed off also.

And yeah this is expensive...... But it shouldnt be about money should it!

Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone!

I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!

[freeflyn 0]

Look in to para-gliding and hang-gliding helmets. They are required to be crash rated.
http://www.icaro2000.com/Products/Helmets/4fight/Cut-Integral/Cut-Carb-Optic-L.jpg
This one is 185 Euros, JT used one for some time, they are extremely light and no problem with visibility.
Greg

[AggieDave 6]

I tried that Giro on at the local MTB shop. The visibility really sucked when looking down. It could be modified, but I wasn't really excited about it in regards to how the vents in the front were located. It would make it hard to trim and keep it looking clean due to the vent locations. If that makes any sense.

Now the hanggliding and paragliding helmets, those I'm going to have to spend some time looking at.

Its a smallish niche within the market in the skydiving community, but I wonder if there is enough demand for a quality full face that could be geared towards high performance canopy flight? Something with honest-to-god crush foam, good acoustic ability to allow the wearer to hear, a spot for a dytter, good visibility and a chin guard. All of this while being reasonably aerodynamic.

Is it too much to ask for someone like Bonehead to custom make the perfect swoop helmet?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[frost 1]

How about these two?

http://www.mrtoys.com/disney/pics/Master-Replicas-Rocketeer-Helmet-sml.jpg
or
http://www.80stees.com/images/products/Ironman_Helmet_Costume.jpg

Or Ian's favorite:
http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direct/dbimage/50320202/Hood.jpg

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[davelepka 4]

I think one of the problems is a real helmet needs that crush zone between the shell and the head, and that sets the shell out away from the head. Around the eyes and face, this allows the shell to protrude out far enough to effect visibility.

I've come to accept this when I ride a motorcycle, partly because I have mirrors, and partly because I'm primarily worried about people/cars/things all coming at me on the horizontal plane. Under canopy I have to worry about things coming at me from every possible angle, and have become used to the superior visibility of the thin shell/padding of my skydiving helmets.

I think you should be looking for a 'swoop only' helmet. One that offers the superior protection you're looking for, but at the expense of some visibility. The catch would be that you would only wear this on hop n pops where you have a pre-determined landing order, and traffic management is almost a non-existant factor.

The trade off is that on regular skydives, without the big time lid, you may have to skip the ghostriders over the pond.

None of this is taking into account how far the lower edge of the shell, in the rear collar area, will protrude into the area where your risers/slider/reserve parts reside. I know that in the past 'stuff' has been known to hang up on the lower edge of a Protec, and I would gather that a 'real' helmet might provide the same hazzard.

[AggieDave 6]

The first one has serious potential, but see I already have the 3rd one and it just doesn't do well on the 2nd jump if you get it wet on the first jump. The chaffing is worst then what Ian gets with his leather thong and swooping cod piece.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ianmdrennan 2]

Mike,

Thanks, but I'm more partial to this helmet.

I've also included a shot of my new swoop pants. They have ULTRA low drag. I think you'll see it become quite a trend.

Special thanks to Stu for modeling them.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[packing_jarrett 0]

dude! you had to go looking for that shizer!

Na' Cho' Cheese

[ianmdrennan 2]

Jarrett,

I found a better picture of Stu modeling them. So I replaced the attachment.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Something with honest-to-god crush foam, good acoustic ability to allow the wearer to hear, a spot for a dytter, good visibility and a chin guard. All of this while being reasonably aerodynamic.

Is it too much to ask for someone like Bonehead to custom make the perfect swoop helmet?

Short answer: yes, it is too much to ask for.

Reason why: The costs involved with designing a helmet that meets impact standards is too high compared to the return in skydiving. Plus the addition of impact materials inside the helmet require that the shell be larger and what you end up with looks like a motorcycle helmet.

Reality: unless another part of your body impacts the ground first and absorbs most of the shock from the impact during a swoop the chances of your head surviving unscathed are slim to none. All the accidents/fatalities I have seen due to low turns/swooping the jumpers body impacted the ground first followed by their head. Not only were the skydiving helmets split open, their skulls were severely damaged as well. Short of a full face motorcycle helmet I do not believe there is anything out there that will provide you the head protection needed for impacts in the 70-90 mph speed range often obtained while swooping.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[ianmdrennan 2]

I think Scott's right for the most part.

It'd be nice to have an impact rated helmet, but the reality is that in all but glancing blows, it's not going to do a lot of good.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[diablopilot 2]

Careful about a protruding chin bar. There is great video out there of Sonic pulling a beautiful superman on the Perris pond during the first World Cup, only to have the chin bar grab water, stop his head, and flip his body completely over it's self!

Was a sight to see, and he said his neck was pretty well injured for a few weeks!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I do not believe there is anything out there that will provide you the head protection needed for impacts in the 70-90 mph speed range often obtained while swooping.

I agree, beyond very large and heavy motorcycle helmets.

The reason why this quest began is from a largely spectacular crash I had on Sunday. I laid out a nice looking ghostrider, but didn't get out of the pond quick enough and I reached the pronounced exit lip of the pond. It popped me up and out of the water while I was grabbing the rears, but then I launched forward hard and fast slamming my head into the ground before the rest of my body hit. Estimates are that I was still going in the neighborhood of 40mph. That's not all that fast compared to the rest of the swoop, but fast enough to hurt real good.

Needless to say my old Mindwarp didn't do that great of a job with that impact. In fact I have a bit of a mark on my forehead where the edge of the helmet was located. Luckily I wasn't hurt from that crash, just bumped and bruised.

Thus my quest for something that could take the abuse, still have good visibility and protect my face. I fully understand that loading nearly 2.6 as I roll out of my turn I'm going fast enough that even if I do impact in the water, its pretty much over. The helmet is for that last 1/4th of the swoop.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tetra316 0]

Quote

My factory diver saved me from a pretty hefty encounter with both a tree and the ground on multiple occassions, but maybe i just have a hard head and am unbelievably lucky

And the video of the tree encounter is pretty spectacular too!

[AggieDave 6]

Ok, I ended up ordering a Pro-Tec Shovelhead fullface. It has a huge chin guard and some things I don't like about it; however, I'm going to spend some time modifying it to see if I can get it to work for me. If not, then my experiment still cost well under $100, so its not a huge loss. Once it comes in I'll take some before pictures and some after pictures and let everyone know if it worked for me. It'll probably be next week sometime by the time it gets here and I get a chance to dremel it up.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."