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Velocity , Katana, or ??

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I've got about 525 stiletto jumps,135,120,107. I weigh 170 lbs out the door. I did some demo jumps on a velo 96 last summer and really liked the Canopy openings and the way it flew. The way it dives in the turns was exactly what I expected, but I thought it took a little more to get it started turning.
I have not jumped a katana and would like some input from those who have jumped a katana and Velo.

I'm not in any hurry to get to a cross braced canopy necessarily - however I did like the velo, and I am looking to take another step

I would like to take the next step with my canopy flying and I'm looking for a different platform that out performs the stiletto in terms of swoop.

Am I not loading my stiletto enough to make it perform well?
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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As always consult your local, experienced swoopers who have seen you fly...

that being said i think the katana would be a good choice. I put 600 jumps an a KA loaded at about 1.6. I really learned how to swoop on it. In a lot of ways the katana is more aggressive than a velo. But, i find the velo doesn't fly well at lighter wingloadings. The Katana flys great at that wingloading. it is responsive, fast, and dives like crazy. I actually started my turns higher on the Katana than I do I my velo I have now. Just be careful as it is a big step from a stiletto, even at the same size. Oh, and don't be in a rush to downsize too much, 1.6 or so is great for 600 jumps

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At 1.7:1 you're basically grinding your money into a a fine powder, then snorting it. Sure it sounds cool, but its a ridiculous waste of your money and time.

Ok, that's extreme, but seriously at 1.7 you would be much better served by one of the high performance 9-cells available. Personally after having owned a XF2 for two years I prefer the Katana at the 1.7-1.9 wingloading range.

Sure you could jump a Velo at 1.7:1, but whats the point? The cool factor? The wow, look at me, I'm on a Velo factor? No one really cares. What does impress people is really clean and efficient canopy flight on non-x-braced canopies.:)

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I appreciate the input. I spend a lot of time talking to the other jumpers with more experience than me, and my S&TA.

I'm definitely not looking to grind my money or myself into the ground but I do want to continue to hone my canopy skills and I'm trying to find the best wing to do it under
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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its called demos for PD man...

at the wingloading you are at get the Katana.

it will be the right thing to do for what you want...plus I personally know Velo pilots that still enjoy flying the Katana cause they are hella fun to fly...

Dave
http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

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As Dave has already said, the Velo is out.. a canopy loaded up over 2.0 is a canopy you don't want to mess with. The Velo may be the hottest canopy out there, but it's not a canopy you buy to learn on. The Katana is a very aggressive wing and a move down to a 107 loaded at 1.6 will put you in a very fast swooping canopy.

The move to a different wing and a smaller size is very aggressive. I see that you have averaged only just over 100 a year. If this is your normal yearly total I have to suggest slowing down. if on the other hand, you did 10 in your first 2 years and have been doing 200 a year since, the move takes on a different light.

I do 400+ a year and feel if I dipped down below 200 I would lay-off the Velo. These fast canopies need to be controlled, if you let then get one step ahead of you your in trouble. please be careful and take this advise to heart.






Wow, that was really conservative..., ususally I would just say "F*(k it get the 79 velo dude and grow some balls" Must be the S&TA part of me coming out in public again, sorry.
HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

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All of the info is well taken and I appreciate that it is has all been constructive.
The right choice as a next step I think will be to demo a katana of the same size and get an Idea of how that wing performs. Then Maybe I'll decide to just put a few hundred (or more) jumps on my stiletto and really learn to ring that one out before I make the next move.

Any other input will certainly be welcomed


Thanks Everyone
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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You're going to need to put more than 100 or 200 jumps on a canopy if you expect to progress.

If you do jump a Katana, keep in mind that it's a much different animal than a Stiletto.

There's a lot of merit to what others have said about currency. I'm sure you feel confident and all, but do you really think that making 100-ish jumps per season in a place where you only jump 6 or 7 months per year is enough for you to keep looking for faster/smaller canopies?

There's a limit to everything. I jumped a Velo 90 for a season, and realized that it was beyind the limit for what I was doing, and I upsized two sizes to a 103, and I couldn't be happier. Before that I put 1000's of jumps on Stiletto 107's. The 97 was always available, and eventually they came out with the 89, but I found the 107 was the size for me.

Jumpers sometimes forget that the progression has to stop somewhere. As a student, and then a newbie, you are working your way down in canopy size to a more 'sporting' level, but a some point you have to look at your skills, the type of jumping you do, and what your future in skydiving looks like. The donwsizing has to end somewhere, and considering the performance of the top end of the market, not everyone will make it to the top, nor should they.

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I might be a little out of pace here, but it looks like the general consensus is to have someone with 5 years in the sport and only 600 jumps (avg. 120 per year) on a velocity or a katanna.

Personally I think this is flawed, if he wants a canopy that can outperform a Stilletto swooping my advice would be to go to a Sabre II.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

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I second that: try a SabreII 107 and you'll be amazed at how much distance you can cover in a swoop.
Once you've passed the 1000 jumps mark, come back again for the Katana or the Velocity, this is especially true because you will have to unlearn some of the habits you acquired with the stilleto.

The longer you stick to a canopy, the more you will learn how to fully exploit it (anything under 400 jumps with a good canopy is not enough to be bored with it).

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Some one else had suggested that I give a Sabre II a try. I think that's a great option and I think I am open minded enough to at least see how it performs. A Sabre II 107 demo might be a great Idea.

I will take everyone's advise and use it to my advantage.

Again thanks for the constructive advise and not ripping off my arm and beating me with it. :P

"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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try the 120 instead, you need to learn the recovery arc difference. between the stilletto and the sabre2 it is a fairly big difference.

if you go straight to the 107 sabre 2 from a stilletto 120, I am willing to bet within your fist 120 jumps, 1 year, you will bounce off the ground. hopefully it wont be hard. It happens to all of us. some worse than others.

try the 120.

Quote

Am I not loading my stiletto enough to make it perform well?



no, your just not flying it well. I promise you that canopy can perform. and there is no way in hell that you figured out how to fly it correctly with 600 jumps...

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I promise you won't be disappointed with the Sabre II if your intention is to be a good swooper (not necessarily a competition swooper). The 120 would be a good place to start and then advance on down the line to a 107after a couple hundred jumps and then probably to a 97 (I think) and then you get to upsize to a Katana and then keep progressing.

Don't think for a minute that you are taking a step backward by going to a Sabre II either. I took a Sabre II 135 to the first CPC Championships in 2005 (you had to qualify top 5 in your district that year).

The Sabre II has a much longer recovery arc than the Stilletto, which when you learn to exploit it will allow you to build power and swooper harder. It is more docile at lighter wing loadings, and you can really make it sing when you load it heavy.

Put some time and effort in, and it'll work out for ya.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

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I promise you won't be disappointed with the Sabre II if your intention is to be a good swooper (not necessarily a competition swooper).



I disagree. You *will* be a good competition swooper even if you don't win your local swoop league under a Sabre2. You'll learn how to do it and if you get it dialed in you'll hold your own in many regional comps. Florida doesn't count, but that's a regional swoop league that is unnatural with the amount of talent.:)
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Thanks for all the great advise - It has definitely given me some great options for choosing correct path to becoming a better canopy pilot. I guess I didn't realize what a great swoop canopy a Sabre 2 could be.
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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Florida doesn't count, but that's a regional swoop league that is unnatural with the amount of talent accessible information



While there is absolutely a HUGE amount of talent in the Southeast region, I think you'll find that's largely driven by access to good information and coaching.

That said, the Southeast will always rule (sorry I gotta be a little biased here).

I'm seeing the skill rise more and more of in other regions, and that is awesome.

Well....except Texas....let's be honest - nothing good ever came from there :ph34r::D:ph34r:

Blues,
Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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I really hadn't ever thought about a competition, but hey, If I don't do anything stupid and take the advise of those who have have already made the mistakes, who knows, I may be good enough to compete some day.
In the mean time - Practice, Get training, Practice, ......repeat
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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Re Fl CPC - it has been an amazing experience participating along with the FL CPC so far and I am very happy to be a part of the experience. The pilots are amazing to watch and have been absolutely awesome to me in terms of offering advice and suggestions after every jump. It might have been a little easier for me to join a CPC with a less "intimidating" skill-set of swoopers but when you come right down to it.. it really feels like the place to be.

That said, I am really excited about competing in the IL CPC as well and to see what the 8 month season regions put up. :)

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I wish I had started swooping as a discipline earlier... ie at your number of jumps.. and chosen a better canopy progression. I went from a Saber II 120 to a Stiletto 107 to a XF 99. Skewed and backwards as it seems now, it was the "conventional wisdom" at my DZ that I listened to. Let it be said that the Stiletto, I now feel, definitely cost me some time and a lot of re-learning on the XF99. Nevertheless, get some coaching if you can afford it and use gates/lanes (if you can set them up at your DZ) whenever possible/safe to land. Every jump will therefore help you dial in, and you will learn to hit the gates clean, which is half/more than half the battle.. SabreII or Velo...
The awesome thing about wanting to swoop well ( ie not scaring people, smooth, relaxed and safe in traffic) as well as accurately, is that the bottom half of the skydive ( as I call it) is as much or more fun than the top half (freefall). Instead of just saving your life and landing, you get another chance under canopy to refine a skill. Makes the most of the jump $$'s and is amazing fun (equally frustrating) to learn and refine.
Start NOW!!!!

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Everyone has given great advise and really appreciate that. I do enjoy all of the skydive however the canopy ride is by far my favorite part.

I've talked to my DZO about putting up some gates\lanes and they were not really opposed to the Idea,but there's only a few of us who really are into that type of canopy flight, but I guess the gates could be great for anyone trying to become more accurate.

Is there a website or book that show's the proper placement of the gates, for the proper width and such?

Thanks
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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I believe Al Berchtold (in charge of FL CPC) would have that information and also recently posted it in response to a post by MORRIS. We at the Ranch set up the gates on the far side of the DZ where it's generally out of the traffic pattern. Our landing area is relatively narrow and we managed to find an area so I am sure you can too ! Good luck!

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There's definitely some good reading and advise in both threads, and a lot more jumping and practicing to be done. Some demo canopies will be the way to go before I make my next canopy choice
"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

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