flipper 0 #26 March 14, 2008 Agree ... learn to walk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #27 March 14, 2008 QuoteI think you'd be much happier with an appropriately sized Saber2 then you would a Katana. Concur. There is a guy named Pip at Z-hills who can make a Sabre or Sabre 2 look like the best swooping machine you could want. You can learn the basics on anything. I jump a Katana. It is a buttload of fun. I wasn't ready for it at 450 jumps. If you get the Katana, take a canopy course. If you took a course already, take another.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetswooper 0 #28 March 14, 2008 I wouldn't recommend anyone to try to learn to swoop like Pip...It isn't safe unless you have more than 15000 similar landings. (Even though I heard he hasn't been doing the old school swoops anymore and is using the fronts these days..) Also I think that for bigger turns than 90 you should have some canopy with longer recovery arc than sabre. There's no reason to whip 180's or 270's as low as they have to be done with sabre or similar recovery arc canopy. I usually go with 630 with my velocity, but I hate (and am scared of) doing anything more than 90 with my sabre. I did 270's with that when I started swooping and now I have no idea how I had the balls.. there's no way i'm going to turn that low.. And to the original poster. Get a canopy coach, talk with him, get another canopy coach, and talk with him too. You are not going to find the right answer here. You can find a lot of useful information here about many things in skydiving, but you are not going to find the answer if katana is an OK choice for YOU @ 450 jump. Generally I wouldn't say its ok if the person has to write on dropzone.com to get some acceptance for his choices. If you go on with the katana, be careful. You have to realize that if you end up with the decision that you get that katana, you have to be extremely careful with it. Even people with 5000 jumps have to be careful with their new canopies, luckily they have the experience to know to be careful. Unfortunately its usually inexperienced jumpers who change to a new canopy without any canopy jumps before moving back to for example freefly. Plan your jumps well, make the first 10 or 20 jumps hop'n'pops to train to fly and land that canopy safely. Get instructions for those jumps from some experienced canopy coach. Seek actively information about the effects of higher wingloads and elliptical canopies. Also, how does it affect the openings (better opening position required), what are the problems on big ways or camera jumps. How to train safely canopy piloting up high (not always that easy to find your own "slot" during some busy days). Keep in mind there are many things that you don't know you don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #29 March 14, 2008 QuoteThere is a guy named Pip at Z-hills who can make a Sabre or Sabre 2 look like the best swooping machine you could want. Really?! i thought it was some of the scariest old school shit i've ever seen. :) Please dont try to swoop like him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #30 March 14, 2008 Quote Quote There is a guy named Pip at Z-hills who can make a Sabre or Sabre 2 look like the best swooping machine you could want. Really?! i thought it was some of the scariest old school shit i've ever seen. :) Please dont try to swoop like him. Brian Germain even references him in The Parachute and It's Pilot as what NOT to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #31 March 14, 2008 QuoteEven though I heard he hasn't been doing the old school swoops anymore and is using the fronts these days.. That's all I've seen. If I am wrong, I apologize.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #32 March 14, 2008 Quote Really?! i thought it was some of the scariest old school shit i've ever seen. :) Please dont try to swoop like him. How about this? I had a Pilot 150. I use to release fronts from 90 degrees about 4 sec before I would hit the ground. It was a nice ground rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetswooper 0 #33 March 15, 2008 Quote How about this? I had a Pilot 150. I use to release fronts from 90 degrees about 4 sec before I would hit the ground. It was a nice ground rush. The old school means here initiating the turn (preferably a toggle whip) 4 seconds before you would hit the ground. This can also be done with the fronts, but the rule is not to grab them until you have 4 seconds left before you hit the ground.There's nothing wrong in releasing the fronts 4 seconds before the ground level. 4 seconds is a long time. (watch some swoop wids from PST or CPC comps and count the time the pros have between releasing the fronts and levelling out ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #34 March 16, 2008 so i got the katana170 demo today and made a few jumps on it... i fucking loved it!! it wasnt nearly as scary as i expected it..the landings and openings were ultra smooth and the turns were fucking fast...way faster then my safire obviously... i didnt find that the glide was as flat as alot of people told me but maybe i just need to do some more experimenting with it dave i did all of the drills that you posted up in the the first page of this thread...watched my altitude on each manuver. i think this is gonna be a canopy i stick with for a long time to come...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyshimas 0 #35 March 16, 2008 Sweet man! after jumping it give me some feedback I am intrested in trying katana soemtime also. Jumped my crossfire2 119 today sweeeeeeeeeet ride want to jump and jump and... jump :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #36 March 16, 2008 yeah when we catch up again I can work out some more things for you so that you learn the full range of it :-) Cheers man Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #37 March 16, 2008 I jump a Katana 107 at 2.0 The Katana is not a flat gliding canopy even at your wing loading in normal flight (no canopy inputs). It is trimmed fairly nose down resulting in a fast forward speed in steady state unaccelerated flight. However it does flatten out quite nicely with some rear riser input (by this I mean at altitude as in trying to get back from a poor spot, not on landing as I wouldn't recommend that you use rear riser input as a regular landing technique until you gain some experience on your new toy. Have fun and be careful, Doug Quoteso i got the katana170 demo today and made a few jumps on it... i fucking loved it!! it wasnt nearly as scary as i expected it..the landings and openings were ultra smooth and the turns were fucking fast...way faster then my safire obviously... i didnt find that the glide was as flat as alot of people told me but maybe i just need to do some more experimenting with it dave i did all of the drills that you posted up in the the first page of this thread...watched my altitude on each manuver. i think this is gonna be a canopy i stick with for a long time to come... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #38 March 16, 2008 QuoteI jump a Katana 107 at 2.0 The Katana is not a flat gliding canopy even at your wing loading in normal flight (no canopy inputs). It is trimmed fairly nose down resulting in a fast forward speed in steady state unaccelerated flight. However it does flatten out quite nicely with some rear riser input (by this I mean at altitude as in trying to get back from a poor spot, not on landing as I wouldn't recommend that you use rear riser input as a regular landing technique until you gain some experience on your new toy. Have fun and be careful, Doug Quoteso i got the katana170 demo today and made a few jumps on it... i fucking loved it!! it wasnt nearly as scary as i expected it..the landings and openings were ultra smooth and the turns were fucking fast...way faster then my safire obviously... i didnt find that the glide was as flat as alot of people told me but maybe i just need to do some more experimenting with it dave i did all of the drills that you posted up in the the first page of this thread...watched my altitude on each manuver. i think this is gonna be a canopy i stick with for a long time to come... yes let me clarify..when i said the glide is not as flat as i was told i meant in rears up high..forgot to mention that i was not talking about full flight.. i have alot more experimenting to do with this canopy..i cant wait to get back under it-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P-dro 0 #39 March 16, 2008 i'm usually on the very conservative side of these questions, but I made 25 jumps on a Katana 170, coming from a Safire 169 and I perfectly understand agent lead reaction. I've had exactly the same. This canopy is very addictive, and not because it is written a cool name on it. Yes, the Katana 170 is a phenomenal canopy with the best opening i've ever had. it's a joy to fly and land. But on the first approach it's deceptively close to a Safire or a Sabre. In "normal" use at a medium wingloading it will have a similar behavior. But if you push it a little more than usual, it will quite litteraly fall out of the sky like it's smaller sisters. True, I load it a bit more than you ( 215 out of the door), but be extra careful. I hadn't fully realised how diving it was until I had to avoid another jumper. The previous landing on the contrayr were similar to me Saifre, only better. My only advice would be maybe to make 30-50 jumps with a Safire/Sabre 170 before switching to the Katana, just to avoid dealing with a planform and wingload change at the same time... Have fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #40 March 24, 2008 well after i put 15 jumps on the demo from PD i went ahead and bought my own... ive learned that i can put this canopy down where i want it..even when i fuck up and misjudge my landing pattern altitude.. oon one of my first jumps with it i started my downwind too low and by the time i was turning for base i was already at like 500 feet so i gave it a little more turn for final and i was looking right at some power lines that i was headed for at the altitude i was at...i gave her a VERY little front riser dip for half a second and she dropped about 50 feet...i landed it right thru the ranch driveway posts..it was a little scary but at least i know now that i can land it in a not so optimal situation... after that i adjusted my pattern altitudes by about 600 feet and everything fell into place so to say...landing have been quite fast and with the exception of one or 2 sliding in i pretty much landed them all flawlessy.. yesterday i had the fastest landing of my career and man it was fucking exhilarating! slight front riser approach on a slight downwind...what a fucking joy to fly.. i like the fact that it keeps me alert and aware at all times as it demands attention..my safire i was able to just sit back and relax for a little bit but with this beast she needs to be attended to..and that makes the whole of the skydive alot more exciting for me as it does not stop when the canopy comes out.. the openings are LONG and soft...sometimes too long for my taste but im assuming ill get used to them with time and more experience? i had maybe 4 diving turning(90-130)openings out of 15 jumps.. regardless of the openings i really love everything about the canopy although i didnt find that the glide on rears was as flat as some people told me it would be.. i cant wait to fly my own...its off the shelf from PD so i should have it this week..amazingly it perfectly matches the colors of my new rig so that worked out really well.. ill keep yall posted as im getting some coaching from lots of experienced canopy pilots at the ranch..and im gona get jeffro out for a course mid june if anyone is interested in that...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #41 March 25, 2008 Quotethe openings are LONG and soft...sometimes too long for my taste but im assuming ill get used to them with time and more experience? i had maybe 4 diving turning(90-130)openings out of 15 jumps.. dump with some slight forward motion I put emphasis on slight and in my experience it the lengthiness will shorten and the openings will be a little less extreme... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #42 April 1, 2008 i gave this a shot last weekend and it actually opened up a little faster...but still soft...its something ill have to perfect of course..but i like the concept.. thanks dave..when will you be back to the ranch?-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #43 April 2, 2008 I should be up there on saturday it is time for some air that isnt mechanical in nature.. see you then perhaps Dhttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obadz 0 #44 April 2, 2008 Quote well after i put 15 jumps on the demo from PD i went ahead and bought my own... I'm gonna try the demo if Sonic still has it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #45 April 2, 2008 Dave - got my 97 Katana this week. Going up on Sunday as this looks to be the better day. See you there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmut 0 #46 April 3, 2008 Concur. There is a guy named Pip at Z-hills who can make a Sabre or Sabre 2 look like the best swooping machine you could want. Pip is a horrible example. Now you cant argue with his 8000000 jumps however, he toggle wips his Sabre1 at about 300 feet. If it was anyone else it would scare the shit out of me everytime he does his 180. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmut 0 #47 April 3, 2008 Buy the Sabre you will have a hell of a time selling a Katana 170. Spend some jumps on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #48 April 3, 2008 katana is already paid for...should be arriving today actually..im not worried about selling it..im gonna stay on it for a looong time..-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #49 April 3, 2008 Quoteim not worried about selling it..im gonna stay on it for a looong time.. Is it just me or have I heard that many, many times? Maybe you will, but I doubt it... and if you take up swooping seriously, you may quite reasonably go for something smaller.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #50 April 3, 2008 ooooooooohhh, I so hear that... I swore I'd never get out from under my Sabre 150 or the 135 and I was gonna keep the Sabre2 120 cuz I loved it so, and marry my Stilletto 107 'cuz that was a speedy ride... and totally forever committed to my Crossfire 2, 99 which was soooooooo cooool.... and yet, here I am 8 years later, divorced from many previous loves, another $1500 lighter and a Katana 97 just about to slapped on risers. Point is, I KNOW I will be under a Velo someday...:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
