Landing "tricks" for a old porous canopy

[AirCanada 0]

I have searched the forums for topics related to this, but have only pulled up posts about when to retire a canopy... not how to deal with landing a old one...

I have a PD230 nine cell. Old with many jumps (it was free!). It is safe, and has been checked over, and minor repairs made by a local rigger.

Problem is, I *always* seem to come in a little hard. All my landings are stand up, but in no wind I almost never get a "tip-toe" landing. It is always a little fast, or a little hard. I have tried slow flare, fast flare, half brake approach to a release and plane out the diving canopy. I haven't tried anything with pulling down the front risers.

I have 55 jumps, mostly on this canopy. I also have extensive experience flying paragliders (usually 220 - 260 sq ft, and high performance), and more recently a 160 sq ft speed flying canopy. Almost all my landings under these much more energy retentive canopies are "tip-toe".

Given the amount that I skydive (not much), I'm not interested in getting a new canopy... unless it appears completely impossible to fix the problem with a little more skill (ie. I lend it to a number of more experienced jumpers, and no-one can seem to land it nicely).

Admittedly, I'm being a bit picky about this, but having had a number of back problems in the past, I'm pretty anal about wanting my landings to be fully dialed. Plus, it's easy to twist an ankle from coming in a bit hot... and 3 weeks of injury recovery really takes the fun out of things.

So, any suggestions of things that I can try to get that "perfect" landing every time?

Josh Briggs
Canmore, AB

[phoenixlpr 0]

How many jumps on that canopy? What is your wing load on that canopy?

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I have tried slow flare, fast flare, half brake approach to a release and plane out the diving canopy. I haven't tried anything with pulling down the front risers.

Well all you can have is a single stage flare. You have to hit the stall point when your feet touching the ground.

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Admittedly, I'm being a bit picky about this, but having had a number of back problems in the past, I'm pretty anal about wanting my landings to be fully dialed. Plus, it's easy to twist an ankle from coming in a bit hot... and 3 weeks of injury recovery really takes the fun out of things.

So you know what to do, but you don't accept. That's you game and your pain.

I got a single jump on a PD260. It's a life saving device and not fun at all. My landing was ok.

[skybytch 259]

I've only got 600-ish jumps on old porous F111 canopies. Your best option would be to replace it with something that still has some flare left in it - even a 1000+ jump zp canopy will have more flare than what you've got (and most models will open much softer as well - which is nice for those of us with back issues).

If replacing it is totally not an option, land in the peas as much as you can and try taking a wrap or two before you flare.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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try taking a wrap or two before you flare.

I know Lisa knows this, but to a new reader I want to be clear: Just remember to practice anything you plan to do on landing up high to be sure that it doesn't have undesirable effects (like stalling).

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I lend it to a number of more experienced jumpers, and no-one can seem to land it nicely

Definately do this, and preferably lend it to someone who is as close to your weight as possible. If they can't land it either, something's wrong. Also, has your rigger checked the line trim and steering line length? Too long or too short steering lines can make landings suck.

But really, if it passes inspection and keeps pounding you in, and if one or two experienced people find the same thing, it's just too old, and there are no tricks. I flew a PD170 as my first canopy (it had about 500 jumps at the time)... it had a great flare and I never had trouble with it, actually had 100% stand-up success rate.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Pendragon 1]

Yup.

For example, the lines might be microline - these shrink with heat (generated by friction). The brake lines shrink the most - due to friction between the line and the guide ring as you pull the toggles, which the other lines don't get. It may be that there is no slack in the brake lines when your toggles are completely up, in which case your canopy is flying slightly braked, and the flare will suffer. Depending on how many jumps are on the lineset (and the lineset itself), it may just need the brake lines extending, or a complete reline. Check with a master rigger.

F-111 type canopies don't have the same type of flare (or power) as a ZP canopy either, and will land a little harder anyway.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[skybytch 259]

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I know Lisa knows this, but to a new reader I want to be clear: Just remember to practice anything you plan to do on landing up high to be sure that it doesn't have undesirable effects (like stalling).

I meant to say that... but I posted BC (before coffee).

[pilotdave 0]

I have a PD150 in my second rig. Mine's still in pretty good shape, but not great. It takes perfect timing to get a nice landing on mine. And since I don't jump it often, when I do, my timing is usually off.

Check and make sure your brake lines aren't too short. There should be some slack in them when your hands are all the way up. Mine were VERY short (pulling the tail down constantly) for a while, which made the flare much worse. After I got that fixed, it became a little better but not like a nice crispy sabre2.

Dave

[AirCanada 0]

Thank you all.

I will get the line lenghts checked, and look at changing the brake line lenght.

No-one mentioned diving it to generate speed prior to landing. Is this because that won't help if there is no flare power left in the canopy to begin with, or because I have too few jumps for this to be recommendable?

I have tried brake approaches (ie. Half brakes on final, to a full release, then planing out the surge and dive, prior to final flare), and this helped somewhat, but not dramatically.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.
Josh.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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No-one mentioned diving it to generate speed prior to landing. Is this because that won't help if there is no flare power left in the canopy to begin with, or because I have too few jumps for this to be recommendable?

Can you make it dive by using double fronts? I quess not, because its huge.

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I have tried brake approaches (ie. Half brakes on final, to a full release, then planing out the surge and dive, prior to final flare), and this helped somewhat, but not dramatically.

I've seen Strong tandems landing in break surge in regular basis.

It may help, but I manage to break my ankle under a Nav220 with break surge(unintentional).

[dannydan 0]

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No-one mentioned diving it to generate speed prior to landing.

DAMN!!! Wish I knew I could dive a 230 to gain MORE speed b4 my chop this july!!! ;) lol

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It takes perfect timing to get a nice landing on mine.

This aint no sh*t!!! After my 230 cut, i bought a completes used sys with a F111 PD210 (yes lineset is flat~no bend/arc) and if I don't stab at the correct time I am plf~n like a motherF.... What a diff even old zp is... : DD

[Beer 0]

I had issues with my Clipper due to short brake lines, about 2.5ft to short. I never realized I was actually stalling the canopy on every landing untill I took a canopy course and it was stalling with toggles at nipple level.

Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself.

[blackfox 0]

i have the same problem with a pd 230 from the dz's rental gear, i can hardly land that thing,
my 40 jumps prior on a 190 were great, i really need to buy a rig, why is gear so freaking expensive

[blackout 0]

same problem on my sabre 170 especially in warmer weather and lower winds

[Waldschrat 0]

.....at zeroposity? How many jumps do your sabre have?