Psychology of Big Pond Swooping

[chachi 0]

some people in this post are making references to your reflection and ripples to deal with your actual height and i want to say i think those are dangerous references. you should be knowing how high you are above the water by looking far ahead like we teach students. you are going to fly where you look.

[billvon 2,396]

>and i want to say i think those are dangerous references.

Agreed. Seaplane pilots know that it's next to impossible to judge height off glassy water, and must either a) set up a safe descent rate and maintain it to the surface or b) land near a shore with a reference. Since most swoop ponds are small, it's easy to use the shore as a reference - but that requires looking well ahead of one's trajectory.

[NewClearSports 0]

One important thing I need to add!

Although the water might have contributed in the loss of altitude awareness.

It was the WATER that SAVED HIS LIFE !! I got an update today and things are looking good.

Thanks to our DZ owners Mike & Tara Pitt.

[billvon 2,396]

>It was the WATER that SAVED HIS LIFE !!

Good point. Water won't always save you from a botched swoop, but it will give you a much better chance than hitting the ground.

[pchapman 261]

NewClearSports:
Last year Burnaby had five CPC meets scheduled, which were being run over land. How did things work out with injuries then? (There were no major issues that I heard of.)

Just wondering if you perceived a different style of flying or anything compared to this year, land vs. water. (Of course there's been just the one meet this year to which to compare last year.)

I competed in the meet you are discussing, and one of the meets last year.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Water can bring about a number of different situations that swoopers may not be used to dealing with:

Depth Perception
Fixation
Glare

to name a few. Peej started a thread a little while back about swooping ponds when JSC's was built.

Check it out and see if there's anything in there that helps.

Pond Swooping

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

Here's an extract from the thread mentioned above (for convenience sake).

Hope it helps

Starting out:
The temptation is great to simply go and drag water on your first pond swoops. This is generally not something I recommend. I believe it's a good idea for pilots to do a few swoops along the SIDE of the pond, over ground, like they were normal swoops. This allows the pilot a few things:

You get to swoop over conditions you are already comfortable with

You get to gauge how far you'll go, and where your 'touchdown' point will be. This will help you refine your setup with confidence

You will begin to get used to having water in your peripherals while landing

You will be less likely to get 'sucked in'

As the comfort level grows:
Once the pilot has reached a comfort level in this environment they then move over to the water itself. Once again, here there are some factors to be aware of:

Getting wet is not the end of the world. Fly consistantly and cleanly for the safest (least erratic) approach. Stick near the edge of the pond so you can bail out if you'd like to

Do your first few approaches with no intention of touching down. Stay 5 foot above the water and get used to being over it while giving yourself a little bit of a buffer

Don't swoop gates just yet. Focus on getting comfortable on where you need to be in your setup and how far you'll go. The likelyhood of 'diving down' on the gates at this stage is high and you dont need the added distraction

Don't stare at the water. Look ahead and use your peripheral vision to help with altitude cues. Also be aware that with huge ponds (like JSC and Mile High) your peripherals will be filled with water as well. Make sure you're looking ahead at the shore in some capacity

When you're finally ready to start touching water, gently set yourself down. Don't reach for the water, let it come to you. Be gentle, there's no need to be an anchor and dragging water WILL shorten your swoop.

Don't do anything you wouldn't do over land!

Once you are comfortable over water:
Here the fun really begins. You get to start learning the limits of your wing.

Set up gates and get used to swooping through them. Remember to be careful of diving down on top of them. Being over water, staring straight down at your 'entry point' is almost a guarenteed way to hit the water....hard

Gradually start exploring the limits of your wing and your skills. It's critical to remember that as you begin to explore new things, you're going to easily fall into a 'rush trap' where you are doing moves before you've reached the surface of the water. Make sure you are level before trying your moves.

Be safe, have fun, and enjoy the water. It's there to help you when you screw up but it's just a small buffer. Great for horizontal speed (hence being level = good) but high vertical speeds can still have the same effect as the ground. I've seen people hit hard enough to blow their dytter to pieces and be lifeflighted out. No matter the medium, high vertical speed into the ground/water is bad

Hope this helps in some way. Remember to seek out advice from as many qualified people as possible. There are more than a few ways to start your progression over water.

Get coaching from qualified pilots whenever possible. Reinventing the wheel hurts, and is unnecessary

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[NewClearSports 0]

Hey Peter,

Yes last year was over land and there were no injuries that I know of.

I've been thinking alot about what might be different when we play over water, and here are some things that I found personaly.

I did a jump yesterday at sunset and wanted to swoop the pond through the couse. As you know if you go for the couse you are in the centre of the pond so using the side as an out is not an option.

My thinking was like this... I will set up just a little tigher to the couse entry gate then usual so that I can safely make it out without coming up short and going for a swim, but I won't care if I'm a little high on the gate, it's not a comp.

So here is what happened with my swoop, I initiated the 270 using the gate as my target as usual, but what happened of couse was that I found myself too tight on it and diving at it too steeply. Because of realizing this I rushed the turn around pulled out of the dive to find myself flying 20ft over the gates, and doing a big "Peter Pan" over the entire couse not even coming close to touching the water.

I should know better then to set up too tight. Its better too far then too tight. Being too tight leads to a very steep entry angle, being too far only leads to a shorter swoop.

The spot I should have been setting up with No Wind as it was on that evening, shoud have been past the far end of the pond, but as I said I changed my spot because of not wanting to get wet.
This was stupid of me, and its an easy trap to fall into.

I gota run. I will continue later.

[chachi 0]

the reality of pond swooping is that to do it right you may end up short on distance sometimes and not making it out of the water. or, you develop the sense that you can make the gates with a proper setup and slide out the side bank if you don't have the distance.

what you CAN NOT DO is setup tight to the gates. you WILL smack the pond if you try this too many times by diving at the gates too much.

swooping the pond is about everything being right from your setup in both height and distance, to your turn rate and dive, to your roll out and recovery, to placing your foot on the water. it looks easy when done right but to not make all of those steps perfectly and expect to have the same results is not reality.

expect to get wet sometimes, it's fun and no big deal.

[NewClearSports 0]

Quote

expect to get wet sometimes, it's fun and no big deal.

Exactly!

I think any combination of setting up too tight on the gates, getting target fixation trying to make the gates and loosing your depth perception from being over water can easily lead to disaster.

Last season running the couse over grass many of us inc. myself still had times were we set up too tight and we got a vert. on the gates which meant a 0 for the round, BUT we did seem to know when to pull out of the dive anyway. The ground is getting big and this angle is too steep, time to let up.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Swimming is definitely fundamental. EVERYONE gets wet once in a while.

[jmd 0]

Rats ... Rick and his brother Randy were my PFF instructors back in '89 ... heal well my friend

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." .. A Einstein