kallend 1,623 #26 May 26, 2007 QuoteYou are right, I believe St John Ambulance do play a role but in motor racing they also have doctors who volunteer their time for free purely for their love of the sport. I think according to the MSA there must be 2 doctors on standby at all events plus some other medical support. Something like that. Just to clarify, StJA does not restrict its activities to motor racing. I think the volunteers pretty much support any event that needs them. I can remember seeing them at airshows and track meets.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
udder 0 #27 May 27, 2007 I *believe* that they do all the ambulance work in Perth, Autralia. And they cost a fortune. I know a ride in one for anything is $800 AUD. So St Johns isnt strictly a "charitable" service. So I imagine having one sit around all day would cost more..."In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #28 May 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm sure they volunteer their time as well so funding wouldn't come into it. I suspect you are being overly optimistic thinking that an ambulance might show up, and spend an entire day dedicated to a single event for free. But, spread the cost across all the competitors, and some sponsors, it becomes tolerable. We preach "safety first" all the time for sport jumping... So why is it different during competitions??? It can be difficult to put your wallet where your mouth is, but I think it is wise to just plan the expense of having an ambulance on standby into the event budget. I have to chime in and say that just yesterday I did a standby at the Amelia earhart flyin and we did it for free. Our service does all standby's for free! It's two fold, One is the PR of it and the next is that they pay us to sit around and wait for calls.. the hosp does not care where we sit per say. As far as EMT/Medics standing around saying what should we do? common question to many of us after we have tried something and it did not work or we have an overwhelming scene. "I have just used blank med and have no response, should we call the code or keep doing blank...." could be taken as a few people who do not know what to do I guess.. Anyway working a skydiving injury can be tricky and to all these guys that rush out to get your gear off your buddy so we don't cut if off are really risking your buddys life.. leave the gear on, let us cut it off if we need to. spinal injuries are tricky, moving someone around is a bad thing.. only move them if you are protecting an airway! I am sorry about the loss of your friend, we have all lost friends to skydiving and it sucks, I actually became and EMT years ago to make a diffrence if I was on DZ and an accident went down. I now work at EMS fulltime and still get used at DZ's from time to time.. I would prefer not and for this never to be the case, but at least I am there to help instead of standing around. I would encourage many of you to become first responders or EMT's, the classes are not that bad and you can make a diffrence! Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #29 May 27, 2007 Quote we have a ER doc, an Er nurse who is also a nurse practitioner, two or three flight nurses and an emt.... It's been my experience both in the field for the last 15 years as a paramedic and at the dropzone for the last 7 years that these are not the people to rely on...well maybe the EMT, Due to the fact that you guys are simply not trained in prehospital medicine. More times than not Nurses, Docs, RTs.etc.etc. tend to hamper care than aid in patients care. Way too much ego it seems sometimes. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #30 May 27, 2007 I worked with St. Johns in New Zealand...the volunteer service was a very very basic service...Advanced Life support was paid full time services. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #31 May 27, 2007 Quote If you are under the impression that an ambulance is not a useful item to have on hand at a swooping competition, I think you may have a very unrealistic idea of the dangers of the sport. An ambulance would certainly be a great idea, please don't put words in my mouth. I previously worked as a Paramedic in New York City - I'm fully aware of EMS's value. Better yet, we're at an airport, after all, so let's have life flight come in for the day. Now THERE'S a great idea! Until the bill comes, that is.... emergency medical care is expensive folks. If there's no accident, there's no insurance to pay for it. Who's going to pay for the paramedics time? Who's going to pay for operating costs of the ambulance, such as gas? Ever notice that the air conditioning is running in the back of ambulances (there's good reason for it, btw)? Well, that AC isn't running all day on solar power... Unfortunately, many skydivers do not have medical insurance. How anxious do you think emergency providers are going to be to volunteer time, knowing that if something does happen, they'll be eating most, if not all of the costs involved? Each paramedic call costs over $300, not including medical supplies (ya think ET tubes and IV sets are cheap? Think again...) Yes, there are good samaritans out there that will volunteer their time. My hat's off to them. I think volunteering their services should be appreciated, but not expected. DZO's and boogie organizers are barely able to break even, let alone turn a profit. Fuel prices aren't making it easier. Rising medical costs are one of the biggest national issues today. That in mind, you expect free medical coverage at an event 20 people in size? You expect 20 people to share the cost of it? You are calling me unrealistic??? yeah... ok..... Not directed at you specifically, but I see all these people that think they have all the answers to the logistics of a swoop comp. Ironically, most of these people have never even been to a comp, the most outspoken aren't even swoopers. Quote The canopy class at WTS that had an ambulance on site Most of the competitors in the CPC have close to, or more than 1000 swoops under their belt. I'm one of the newest to competition with ~800 swoops. I would imagine that in a canopy class, people learning to swoop are more prone to major error than someone who's done it 1000 times. Now, before you put words in my mouth again, I'm not saying it cannot happen, just less likely with experience.Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #32 May 27, 2007 QuoteI worked with St. Johns in New Zealand...the volunteer service was a very very basic service...Advanced Life support was paid full time services. This is an excellent point, that I took for granted that people knew. There's a HUGE difference between Advanced Life Support (EMT-P aka Paramedic) and Basic Life Support (EMT-B). People see an ambulance and automatically assume the medics know more than First Aid and CPR. Ignorance is bliss.... JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #33 May 30, 2007 QuoteQuote we have a ER doc, an Er nurse who is also a nurse practitioner, two or three flight nurses and an emt.... It's been my experience both in the field for the last 15 years as a paramedic and at the dropzone for the last 7 years that these are not the people to rely on...well maybe the EMT, Due to the fact that you guys are simply not trained in prehospital medicine. More times than not Nurses, Docs, RTs.etc.etc. tend to hamper care than aid in patients care. Way too much ego it seems sometimes. I disagree, I am an ER nurse by trade...am certified for trauma and ACLS protocol......as are the people that I mentioned above. I may not always be a first responder as you are .... something that I truly respect, however, I do know how to handle trauma in first line offensive measures and have done so on many occasions. The people that I mention above are all ACLS/Trauma certified. I agree that in general if they are from a med/surg floor or family practice or other areas that do not handle emergent life threatening events that they may not be the people that you want there, however, if there are ER crew there - they are trained to handle these kind of circumstances as well as you are.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #34 May 30, 2007 QuoteQuote we have a ER doc, an Er nurse who is also a nurse practitioner, two or three flight nurses and an emt.... It's been my experience both in the field for the last 15 years as a paramedic and at the dropzone for the last 7 years that these are not the people to rely on...well maybe the EMT, Due to the fact that you guys are simply not trained in prehospital medicine. More times than not Nurses, Docs, RTs.etc.etc. tend to hamper care than aid in patients care. Way too much ego it seems sometimes. Marc, First let me tell you I highly respect paramedics and what they do. I have been a paramedic adviser and instructor for many years. But realistically, if you or your family has a major trauma, and there is board certified ER Doc with appropriate equipment present, who do you want to lead the resuscitation. And you even state you would rather rely on the EMT - most of whom don't start IV"s, (no slam on EMT's intended - they get stuck in tough positions with limited training,and do a great job) and have limited training compared to paramedics and especially ER docs. Sorry some egos have gotten in your way. I can tell you stories about paramedic fuckups all night, but won't go there. On the other hand, I have been involved in resuscitations in public when a psychiatrist and internist have tried to interfere - I dismissed them and used the paramedic on the plane to assist me with the resuscitation. On my second plane resuscitation, I had my favorite ER nurse to help :-) Ed disclaimer - I am an ER Doc"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #35 May 30, 2007 regardless of the quality of the swoopers involved we usually have a raffle to help raise money every year to have an ambulance on call for the ranch pond swooping nationals... Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reddn 0 #36 June 9, 2007 i dont normally post on here, but just wanted to add that an ambulance standby costs is roughly 90$ an hour, depending on the local market as for the cost of actually being transported, air medical evac runs upwards of 8,000 - 10,000 dollars, and ambulance transport starts at 450(for advanced life support) plus 10 dollars a mile(ground xport only) to the hospital I do suggest to all emt's and paramedic's that jump, to teach your regulars(skydivers) how assist you (and/or the ambulance crew) in the event of an incident. -thomas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
