CKSCUBA 0 #1 May 2, 2007 I own a crossfire2 139 and i recently flew a xaos 27 for a about 20 jumps. I found it hard to land in the flare. when i got deep in the flare the canopy got very reactive. Very touchy so i didnt land it the best. The openings are awesome and it flys very nice. The dive on it was great and it comes out of the dive. When i landed crosswind the canopy was still inflated and made me run hard to the windside and I fell down twice. It is a heavy canopy. Is this all crossbraced canopies? or just the xaos-27. I was under the impression that the xaos 21 and 27 were the more docile of the bunch. If someone would indulge my question: 1. at what wing loading should one be at under eliptical's before moving to crossbraced if at all? 2. would the neos be a better entry canopy into crossbraced? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #2 May 2, 2007 My personal recommendation is 1000 HP landings under a non X-Braced canopy before moving to one. Even then you can still get hurt. Just based on jump numbers I don't think you should start jumping X-Braced canopies. Rather you should perfect your skills on that crossfire, which is an advanced canopy in its own right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #3 May 2, 2007 Spend the time to learn the crossfire line...they are awesome canopies and I feel like everyone is jumping right to crossbrace really fast these days (it can bite you hard brother).. I regularly swoop mine 2-300feet when current... shit I was doing 2/3 of the eloy landing area with 180s on the 129 (two sizes ago) the last time I was there.... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #4 May 2, 2007 you are clearly not ready for a x-brace canopy. in fact, your questions even show a lack of understanding. speed will accentuate your mistakes. mistakes and speed will break you. you MUST be able to land any canopy with a straight in approach in case of emergency and if you can not land the canopy straight in you have no business swooping it. take a few steps back. the crossfire is a killer platform to get good under. if the 139 was too big step down to the 129/119 and spend a few hundred jumps perfecting your technique before you get yourself under a canopy that you can't handle. get coaching! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #5 May 2, 2007 A few comments: >I found it hard to land in the flare. when i got deep in the flare the canopy got very reactive. Do you mean that you still had significant flare power at the end of the stroke? That does take some getting used to. Most HP canopies have a similar characteristic. >The dive on it was great and it comes out of the dive. The "it comes out of the dive" comment worries me. Canopies that "come out of the dive" quickly are said to have a short recovery arc, and are more difficult to learn to swoop with because your initiation has to be both lower and more accurate. However, in my experience, the Xaos does NOT have a short recovery arc. What are you loading it at? >When i landed crosswind the canopy was still inflated and made me >run hard to the windside and I fell down twice. It is a heavy canopy. I assume you don't mean that it weighed twenty pounds! Do you mean that it is still "pulling" on you near the end of the flare? If so, it's doing its job and flying until the last possible moment. The only way to deal with this is to learn to fly the canopy all the way to shutdown. Sounds like you have some learning to do. A moderately-loaded Crossfire2 is a decent canopy to learn those things on. I'd get some more experience with the Crossfire2 139 (and perhaps a few smaller sizes when you're ready) before going on to the Xaos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #6 May 2, 2007 QuoteA few comments: >I found it hard to land in the flare. when i got deep in the flare the canopy got very reactive. Do you mean that you still had significant flare power at the end of the stroke? That does take some getting used to. Most HP canopies have a similar characteristic. >The dive on it was great and it comes out of the dive. The "it comes out of the dive" comment worries me. Canopies that "come out of the dive" quickly are said to have a short recovery arc, and are more difficult to learn to swoop with because your initiation has to be both lower and more accurate. However, in my experience, the Xaos does NOT have a short recovery arc. What are you loading it at? >When i landed crosswind the canopy was still inflated and made me >run hard to the windside and I fell down twice. It is a heavy canopy. I assume you don't mean that it weighed twenty pounds! Do you mean that it is still "pulling" on you near the end of the flare? If so, it's doing its job and flying until the last possible moment. The only way to deal with this is to learn to fly the canopy all the way to shutdown. Sounds like you have some learning to do. A moderately-loaded Crossfire2 is a decent canopy to learn those things on. I'd get some more experience with the Crossfire2 139 (and perhaps a few smaller sizes when you're ready) before going on to the Xaos. I just looked outside and there are definitely frogs falling from the sky... Bill and I agreeing twice in one week most certainly spells one of the 7 signs of the apocalypse... Next week when it hits three will mean the rivers will run red... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #7 May 2, 2007 QuoteI was under the impression that the xaos 21 and 27 were the more docile of the bunch.Hey ckscuba i think others have already touched/ answered on the major aspects of your questions. however, i think it's also important that you and other "up and comers" know that the XAOS platform is still very much an extreme wing. don't think that just because it's not the newest technology out there that it's safe for just anyone to fly. the best peice of advice i can give you over the internet is to build up your foundation of skills (proper flight patterns, flaring, ect), do your research (which you're kind of doing right now), and try to be patient (this shit doesn't happen overnight). be safe bro...Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #8 May 2, 2007 QuoteMy personal recommendation is 1000 HP landings under a non X-Braced canopy before moving to one. I agree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CKSCUBA 0 #9 May 3, 2007 Thanks sky monkey for offering coaching, I will take you up on that. I will come over in the weeks to come and do some coach jumps with you. I have spoke to you a few times and your wife came over to jump with us at skydive tampa bay. She did a hybrid with some of our jumpers at sunset and i filmed it sitfly. It was a mess but fun, like everything else we do. I seen others flying crossfires and who post's are told to get the most out of the canopy before they move on. sounds great to me. Crossbraced are a bit scarry. No harm in demo the canopy, I landed it fine except crosswind. The flare power is huge. Shutting down the canopy would be good to know how to do that. The Xaos 27 dove about 600 ft with a 180 up high. It didn't have a short recovery arch it came out of it on its own. I didnt know if it would stay in a dive forever or recover. Trying to pack that canopy and put it in my container was a nightmare, my boy had to pack it for me. I am no way ready for crosscraced. I have much work to do with the 139. Then if i ever downsize down the line 129 and 119, which i am not ready for that either. Jim Stanton is on my myspace page and i saw the canopy pilot forum where he talks about exploring your canopy's performance and doing drills up high. so i am doing that also. Dharma1976 is swooping his that far then i have a long way berfore I am ready to downsize. Thanks for the Information. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CKSCUBA 0 #10 May 3, 2007 Chuck just don't laugh at my skills too much when I do get your coaching. You may need a few beers to relax when you done with me. I may be old and have a bald spot but I have no skills either. Lol Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #11 May 3, 2007 QuoteChuck just don't laugh at my skills too much when I do get your coaching. You may need a few beers to relax when you done with me. I may be old and have a bald spot but I have no skills either. Get him some finnish aquavite instead he will probably treat you better if you threaten him with that Also there is a bunch or my perspective of me flying my 129 two marches ago in Arizona after first ro8und of canopy coaching but before brian germain. in this video All 180s...check out the last one for sure...the first few are warmups http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3584&string=Arizona_Mar06_sm Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #13 May 4, 2007 Just as an FYI, there is no canopy on the market that will stay in a dive forever until you give input. Many are longer than other, but they all recover. In fact, if one is flying the wing most efficiently, they should not be using much, if any, input the bring the canopy out of the dive. By doing that, one is adding drag and slowing the canopy down. A person should let the canopy recover itself...plus its safer that way. Also, the tricky/twitchy part at the end of your flare, like stated earlier, is a strong bottom end flare. This is different from many non-crossbraced canopies in which you can keep giving input at the end of the flare and receive no response. This is actually a benefit of the canopy! Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #14 May 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteChuck just don't laugh at my skills too much when I do get your coaching. You may need a few beers to relax when you done with me. I may be old and have a bald spot but I have no skills either. Get him some finnish aquavite instead he will probably treat you better if you threaten him with that Also there is a bunch or my perspective of me flying my 129 two marches ago in Arizona after first ro8und of canopy coaching but before brian germain. in this video All 180s...check out the last one for sure...the first few are warmups http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3584&string=Arizona_Mar06_sm Dave Dude, those were 90 degree turns all throughout the movie... Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #15 May 4, 2007 hah... so carving turns are considered a 90 degree less :-P If so I guess the saying is true a well executed 90 can outswoop a bad 270.... I spent a long time doing those big carving 90 turn to 90 turns..in fact I did slightly above mid field at first edition of pond swooping meet at ranch last year with those... So there ya go everyone spend time on your nineties :-P Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #16 May 4, 2007 QuoteJust as an FYI, there is no canopy on the market that will stay in a dive forever until you give input. Many are longer than other, but they all recover. In fact, if one is flying the wing most efficiently, they should not be using much, if any, input the bring the canopy out of the dive. By doing that, one is adding drag and slowing the canopy down. A person should let the canopy recover itself...plus its safer that way. Also, the tricky/twitchy part at the end of your flare, like stated earlier, is a strong bottom end flare. This is different from many non-crossbraced canopies in which you can keep giving input at the end of the flare and receive no response. This is actually a benefit of the canopy! Absolutely, I find that instead of actually giving any sort of input on my rears i am actually gently changing trim to gain desired effect (unless I am digging out of course) in fact on my crossfire if you give too fast of an input you will in fact cause the thing to climb if you arent careful Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
