Top Rings (was Mine?)

[Spizzzarko 0]

"something good finally came out of Yurop"


Ohhh Nooo you did not just say that!

[flipper 0]

Was Dave that done mine's a few years back .. he reckons that it smooths out the transition from rears to toggle input !

[JGarcia 0]

I used this modification during the CPC meet at the Hillz. It actually felt great! It made a noticeable difference in the way the canopy felt on rears, especially coming out of the "corner" for that nice sling-shot effect. . If nothing else, it eliminated having to go up and around the orginal guide ring to get to the top of the rears.

Congrats on 3rd place Mike...

Cheers!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[frost 1]

Hey Jairo! Thanks man :) I was just lucky that the better pilots got UNlucky

So i had a chance to try the "new" mod. Being a fan of easy, dirt cheap and free mods, instead of using the "ring in the Slink" method or stitching the ring to the riser under the Slink - too much work , i used a Precision style soft link with a (softer) brass ring (to help lessen the possible impact on the slider grommets). Wrapped it three times through the loop on the rear riser under the regular slink. I think this is the easiest way to mod it. Took me no more then 5 minutes to do it, didnt have to undo the Slinks or stitch anything extra to the riser.

The effect was quite dramatic... not performance wise but in overall feel of the controls. Easier access to the rear riser, although i had to kinda break the habit of wrapping the thumb around the rear riser where the steering line used to be. The flare also changed, became somewhat similar to what a 3rd-riser flare would feel like. Overall i like this little mod and will stick with it.

I'll snap some pics tonight...

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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The flare also changed, became somewhat similar to what a 3rd-riser flare would feel like.

That's a really good analogy, Mike! To further clarify though: It feels similar to transitioning from rears to toggles when you are using trips. There is a bigger "bump" caused by the slack having longer to be taken up. Odd, but I am already used to it. It just meant having to get ready for a deeper flare during transition from rears to toggles.

Chuck

[frost 1]

Yup! Same here :) The first time got me just a little by surprise

Here are some pics of what i did:

http://maxf.net/~shatalov/albums/3-Gear/aba.sized.jpg

http://maxf.net/~shatalov/albums/3-Gear/abc.sized.jpg

http://maxf.net/~shatalov/albums/3-Gear/abb.sized.jpg

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[skysaintj 0]

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Hey,

didn't pack my canopy on Sunday so I could make some pictures, too.

Nearly every swooper has it here in Germany. First time I saw the modification was in Empuriabrava December 2005 and got the mod the same day. Last time I was in Empuria some swoopers from the UK saw it and modified their canopies, too.

It feels great when you are on your rears and just have your rears and the toggles in your hand (got 22 inch risers and my arms are stretched out to the end of the risers which I like most). A month ago I jumped a friend's rig which doesn't have the mod and it feeled so weird. Couldn't stretch my arms fully (well maybe longer risers will do the job, too).

Our mod is a little different. We have the ring between the first loop of the sLink so it can't move around a lot. Don't see any reason for more wear on the steering lines.

blues
Tobi

Cool .. i have mine like that aswell

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[frost 1]

I was told this weekend that PD has seen some major damage to the lines and slinks with these mods. I am talking about the "ring in the Slink" set up mostly. They have seen partially severed slinks, major damage to the steering line from the way the brake is stowed... Even with the way i did my mod, there is a good chance of wearing the steering line a lot faster... so please, if you have this mod or variations of it - keep an eye on your steering lines and slinks.

P.S. Longer risers (23 inch ones) solved the problem of the steering line getting in the way when applying rear risers.

[RMURRAY 1]

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I was told this weekend that PD has seen some major damage to the lines and slinks with these mods. I am talking about the "ring in the Slink" set up mostly. They have seen partially severed slinks, major damage to the steering line from the way the brake is stowed... Even with the way i did my mod, there is a good chance of wearing the steering line a lot faster... so please, if you have this mod or variations of it - keep an eye on your steering lines and slinks.

P.S. Longer risers (23 inch ones) solved the problem of the steering line getting in the way when applying rear risers.

good to know - I am just going to give this mod a try and will be checking LC lines and slinks closely. I can understand the extra wear on the cats-eye....but not the slinks.

rm

[ianmdrennan 2]

I watched a few people compete with this mod. The wing 'pop' when transferring off of rears was much more pronounced.

Enough so that I didn't bother to try it.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Spizzzarko 0]

They should use "E" lines.

[kamalasound 0]

I had the ring mod on for a month or so and noticed some little dents in the grommets that would have damaged my HMA 350. I now have 26" risers and pulled the mod of. These risers are awesome!!!

[Peej 0]

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I watched a few people compete with this mod. The wing 'pop' when transferring off of rears was much more pronounced.

Enough so that I didn't bother to try it.

Blues,
Ian

Ian, can you elaborate on this a bit more please? What do you mean by "pop"?

Thanks dude

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[Spizzzarko 0]

The transition from rears to toggles if taken to deep will create a noticable "pop" in the canopy. The crw people uses distortions such as this to arrest their forward flight. Not effecient!

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

So wouldn't the "pop" be more a function of staying on rears longer than maybe you should as opposed to where the ring is? I could see brake line length contributing, (i.e. too long) but not location of the ring.

[Spizzzarko 0]

If this modification changes the throw of the the steering lines then you have to move the togles further when transfering. This moment when you are off rears and tranfering to togles is when it becomes un-effecient. The longer the canopy is flying at this moment of un-effreciency the more un effecient it is. The works that I just typed were so profound that I'm not even sure what it was that I just typed, albeit I typed them effeciently.

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

Hummm. If I am envisioning this correctly in my minds eye, the throw doesn't change (unless the lines are so long that the tail deflects up) Your hand position of the risers is the same, the only thing changing is you now have an unobstructed grasp on the rears. The distance your hands have to travel in order to input the brakes when you transition is the same, therefore the time from release of rears to input of brakes (in theory) is the same.

[mktoson 0]

But if you have regular guide rings and grab rears...lets say 2 inches above the guide ring that's 2 inches of slack that you are already taking out of the stroke because the line has to travel through the guide ring and then back up to where you grab rears. With top rings the line wouldn't have to travel back up the line 2 inches.

So far, this is the oldest I've ever been.

[Spizzzarko 0]

If I understand the mod correctly then you are adding the distance to the steering line by changing the position where it attaches to the riser up higher on the riser. When you transfer you are adding that distance to the toggle stroke (I just said stroke hu huu huuhuuuhuhuuu) thus making the transfer longer, but I am sure we are splitting hairs here.

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

[marks 0]

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Stu quotes 1.JPG

[Spizzzarko 0]

I have several copies printed and ready to be posted at the DZ.

[davelepka 4]

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changing the position where it attaches to the riser up higher on the riser. When you transfer you are adding that distance to the toggle stroke

My understanding of the steering line lenght, at least on a Velo is that the distance is fixed so as to hold the tail in a certain position at full flight.

The lines will have a bow, but create enough drag to hold the tail straight, and prevent it from bouncing up and down at higher speeds.

If you move the goinde ring up, you allow the tail to move up as well, and then it 'pops'.

I'm surprised you don't see more movement of the tail further up in the dive as well.


A simple alternative to this is to have risers long enough so you grab the rears just above the standard guide ring position (less than the length of a toggle, so you're not pulling any line through the ring).

Really though, how far up the rears you can reach shouldn't be that important. They have a limited stoke (huh-huh he-he) before the stall, and the pressure is never enough that I need any extra leverage to pull them down.

It sounds like poeple have taken the desirable aspects of a front riser set-up (long stroke, and good leverage) and applied them to the rear risers as well, somewhat incorrectly (maybe).

[Spizzzarko 0]

YOu would think that the tail would rise up a few degrees in reflex with this mod. Some airplanes do this with their flaps to get a better cruise economy (mooney, c-182, lancair to name a few). I think with our non rigid wings that this might cause a slight tail flutter. You really don't see tail flutter on the velo's, but I have seen it up here in Colorado when it get's hot on the vx's and jvx's. At the last comp I saw a vx have tail flutter pretty much through the entire swoop. It only seems to happen when it is hot up here though. It wasn't happening in the mornings but more in the afternoons. I don't recall if team x was getting it on their sail canopies but I do recal Dan Raymond getting it on his ZP jvx and Noah or sunman getting it on his VX. TJ got it bad last year. It sounded like an automatic weapon on his canopy.

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

I thought you might like that one.