what packing technique is this?

[mixedup 0]

Have been using the PRO pack technique so far re packing (Zero-P canopies, 230/210/190)

Just got a new 189 canopy and did one jump and (of course) had a heck of a time trying to get it in the bag. Someone helped out with a slight variation of the PRO packing but I forgot to ask what it was called. Or perhaps it's just a PRO pack with a slightly different way of getting it into the bag...anyway it is....

* have it on the floor and have just got all the air out
* instead of doing the first fold at the nose (skinny end), reach down towards the end (thicker section), put your hand underneath here, and then effectively do the 2nd fold first
* then once the 2nd fold is in hand carefully by pulling all canopy in with fingers etc (so it's quite small) then put this section into the bag
* once this is in the bag then do the top (skinny end) fold, onto the top of the thicker end which is already in the bag
* end up with the canopy in the bags in the same respect but the order in which the folds were done for getting it to the same point were swapped around, to better assist for a bran new zero-p canopy which is all slippery

So questions were:
Q1 - What's this called
Q2 - Any video's on this method (e.g. links to you tube)

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[DvK 2]

I think it's just a slight variation on the technique. A packer taught me this method, when I just started packing and was having a hard time getting my canopy in the bag. Works quite well, getting the big fold first, put that in the bag and then get the smaller s-fold in the bag, between the bigger fold.

Like you said, the end result is the same, the canopy is still in the bag the exact same way :)

[Hellis 0]

Never seen a video of it.
But here is a thread with some pictures of the 'Reverse S-fold'

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2973654#2973654

[mixedup 0]

thanks guys - photo's make it look easier than it is :)

if anyone has a video of this too I'd be interested

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[mixedup 0]

PS. One question here - would the wrapping around the nose come loose here whilst you're doing the first fold of the thicker end? Or perhaps you can still have your knees on the nose whilst you're doing this? (can't remember now)

(just concerned about this point as I've had it mentioned to me the tight wrapping around the nose helps avoid a hard opening)

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[Hellis 0]

I don't usually use this method as my canopy is very old and almost packs itself.
But if/when I do use it, I place a knee/leg across the canopy as the picture shows.
In this way I control the slider (and lines) until the other part of the canopy is baged.
When I lift the bag to a standing position I grab the lines by the slidergrommets to make sure they don't slip down the lines.

[JackC1 0]

I pack this way. I place my knee across the slider end of the pack job when I'm bagging the rest. When I stand the bag up ready to S-fold the slider end into the bag, I can take the opportunity to make sure my slider is hard against the stops and tighten up the rolls in the tail if they need it.

[Willi91 0]

I also use this method.
There isn't very much room in my bag for the canopy, and therefore I find it much easier to not put the entire canopy in the bag at one time, but to do it over two steps. Honestly, I don't understand why this method isn't used be everyone. Sometimes I see people having an extremely hard time putting it in the bag, because they do both folds before bagging. Stick with this method, if you got it down.

[Hellis 0]

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Honestly, I don't understand why this method isn't used be everyone.

Because we know how to pack the other way.
And it's quicker to bag the canopy the normal way.

I have also heard, might be a rumor that is not true, that this reverse S-fold wears on the canopy more.

[SlackBeef 0]

If your talking about what I think your talking about, I pack this way all the time. No videos of it though. It is the easiest way to get anything in the bag, especially brand new canopies. I pack my velo, and any other canopy, this way. Then again I found many ways to pack since what I started out I was a packer.

GO BIG OR GO HOME!

[bofh 0]

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Honestly, I don't understand why this method isn't used be everyone.

Because we know how to pack the other way.
And it's quicker to bag the canopy the normal way.

Of the fastest packers I know, some fold, bag, fold, others just fold and bag. I don't see a speed difference there, except when it comes to big/new canopies and small bags where the fold, bag, fold method wins.

After making the first S-fold near the lines much of the lines and slider are locked in the fold. You lose that if you make the first fold near the bag instead. That's why I don't teach it to students.

On the other hand, if you need two folds, your canopy is just too big.

[DARK 0]

its simply called a reverse s-fold

it has the advantage of making it easier to control the majority of the fabric as you are getting it into the bag

it has the disadvantage of making it harder (harder might be the wrong word people just might forget to pay attention to it) to control the slider.

speed differences are marginal if you compare two similarly experienced packers but having packed with both methods for a long period of time i personally think the traditional method is faster and i definitely sped up when i went back to the traditional method but in the begining swiitching to the reverse s-folds sped me up as i was having such a big problem with the traditional method.

if you are having trouble bagging your canopy try this method, if you arent then there is no advantage to doing it.

[shah269 0]

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On the other hand, if you need two folds, your canopy is just too big

The one and only reason i would ever downsize from my 210.
You guys with your 100sqft things make it look so easy!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

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[phoenixlpr 0]

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Honestly, I don't understand why this method isn't used be everyone.

Because we know how to pack the other way.
And it's quicker to bag the canopy the normal way.

I have also heard, might be a rumor that is not true, that this reverse S-fold wears on the canopy more.

That would imply your "normal" S-fold would cause wear too, because its about the very same in the bag.

Anyway, you can climb the peak only from the north side or .... you might got more wear on your shoes.

[Hellis 0]

The reason I heard was, the lines by the slider is not tensioned as good and can cause wear on slider and the canopymaterial that is nearby.

It can probably be true that you lose some of the linetension, but if that wears the canopy or if it wears 'enough to make a difference', I have no clue.

And regarding larger canopys.
I pack with the traditional method, and do it sucessfully up to 300 sqf. (300 new sqf)
Size doesn't matter

[craigbey 0]

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its simply called a reverse s-fold

it has the advantage of making it easier to control the majority of the fabric as you are getting it into the bag

it has the disadvantage of making it harder (harder might be the wrong word people just might forget to pay attention to it) to control the slider.

My experience has been that it actually makes it easier to control the slider. After making the first fold, you can still reach into the canopy and push the slider back up against the stops if needed.

While making the second fold, you have better control of the tail, making it easier to keep the slider in place.

[DARK 0]

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My experience has been that it actually makes it easier to control the slider. After making the first fold, you can still reach into the canopy and push the slider back up against the stops if needed.
.

ye you can do that, but the reason you would need to do this in the first place is losing control of the slider / slider end while doing the first fold. im not saying its a huge disadvantage as long as you keep it in mind its not a problem at all

[billvon 2,379]

>PS. One question here - would the wrapping around the nose come
>loose here whilst you're doing the first fold of the thicker end?

It might; you still have to keep control of the "skinny" (slider) end. All the important stuff - lines, slider, bottom of the nose - is there.

>(just concerned about this point as I've had it mentioned to me the tight
>wrapping around the nose helps avoid a hard opening)

That's true but it's not the tightness that gives you the good opening. It's the greater control you likely have due to that tight wrapping.

The secret in packing is to make sure that everything is in about the right position when it hits the air. The exact folding/wrapping/orientation isn't that important, since once it hits the air it's all blown apart anyway. Most of the useful tricks in packing just allow you to keep all those parts in about the right position while you're stuffing it in the bag.

[rehmwa 2]

If this is all in respect to what to do after the wrapped and flaked canopy is laid down (just prior to putting it in the bag)....

then this is what I do - easier to get into the bag since you use the bag to control the material at a halfway point (do the apex fold first and insert that folded part into the bag - THEN bring up the grommet end and push it into the middle fold already in the bag).

end result is the exact same pattern as if you did all the final s-folds in the traditional pattern (grommets up then apex down) and try to control whole brick into the d-bag

I'll teach this to people that have trouble getting the brick in the bag

doesn't have a name AFAIK. but whatever works, and it's nice to have another option

Edit: From the other thread http://www.sidsrigging.com/articles/greed.htm

I figured this out on my own a long time ago - surprised to see it's actually very popular.

...
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[spage 0]

This bagging method is great, thanks for this thread!

I've struggled with the traditional bagging method, but practiced this method a few times last night. So much easier, and it looks so much cleaner.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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It can probably be true that you lose some of the linetension, but if that wears the canopy or if it wears 'enough to make a difference', I have no clue.

Sounds like splitting hair. I got no significant wear on any of my canopies over hundreds of jumps. I got some old video here.

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I pack with the traditional method

Good 4 you.

[mixedup 0]

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I got some old video here

thanks re video, PLUS just noted his trick using a pull-up cord to get the first bag stow band pulled through the first grommet of the bag! (right at end of video) Might have to try this...

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[craigbey 0]

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the reason you would need to do this in the first place is losing control of the slider / slider end while doing the first fold.

That problem is not unique to the reverse s-fold method. I've seen plenty of people wrestling with a stacked canopy and trying to get it all in the bag, while the slider slips further away from the stops and the line tension becomes inconsistent -- or totally f'ed up.

So what if the first fold might cause the slider to move a little (in my experience, this is rare)? You can easily correct that and ensure proper line tension when making the second fold.

[NWPoul 1]

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I pack this way all the time. No videos of it though. It is the easiest way to get anything in the bag, especially brand new canopies. I pack my velo, and any other canopy, this way. Then again I found many ways to pack since what I started out I was a packer.

Velo needed 2 folds??

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I pack this way all the time. No videos of it though. It is the easiest way to get anything in the bag, especially brand new canopies. I pack my velo, and any other canopy, this way. Then again I found many ways to pack since what I started out I was a packer.

Velo needed 2 folds??

It can be a big one.