Swooping banned at SD Arizona

[billvon 2,400]

>If banning anything over a 180 is such an obvious and necessary
> solutionto this problem, why didn't Larry/Bryan have that rule in effect at
>the holiday boogie, where it might have actually done some good?

They did; I was told when I registered. Most people ignored it. From what people have said recently, they are finally enforcing it.

>If 270s are so inherently dangerous, why were they practiced for so long
>without much trouble?

?? There's nothing inherently dangerous about doing 270's when there's no traffic if the jumper has the skill to pull them off. No one in this thread is talking about banning 270's, just banning 270's in traffic areas.

[billvon 2,400]

>The problem will not go away with seperate landing areas....collisions
>will still happen.

Of course. They will just happen less often. People will continue to die in this sport. That doesn't mean that the things we do to increase safety for jumpers is meaningless.

[freeflyz 0]

It's easy,come to Buckeye...$10 hopnpops,and yes your own 400ft swoop lane with 10ft gates,and to sweeten the deal you can go down wind!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Tom's bitch? I'll slit my wrists!

I figured that was the only way to get you to pack tandems full time. But rest assurred you and Stu aren't the only ones not allowed to swoop any more. Bryon is in the same boat as you. Pack tandems or be Tom's bitch. I've been banished off into the frozen north never to swoop again (until Global Warming really kicks in), Brad Harris is not off of the hook. He'll be fighting fires from now on 24/7 ... fighting fires in hell. Kelly will be assigned a mirror and he'll be looking at himself 24/7 (maybe he's already doing that) and Todd Higgley will also not be allowed to swoop (I'll leave his punishment up to you guys ...). The only guy who appears to be off the hook is Tom and well who could say "no" to that belly. But fear not, Tom will figure out some way to mess up his chances before the CPC Championships ... again.

PS: For everyone else, do not take this post serious ... especially the greenies.

Swooping is NOT a crime ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

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They did; I was told when I registered. Most people ignored it. From what people have said recently, they are finally enforcing it.

Why didn't they address the people that were ignoring it? just seems kind of odd that it sounds like they were pretty specific about the rule then yet did nothing about violations.

just curious

[billvon 2,400]

> just seems kind of odd that it sounds like they were pretty specific
>about the rule then yet did nothing about violations.

I saw Bryan reaming a few people out. I think that it's been so common that it's been hard to enforce. Who do you talk to if three people per load do it, and the loads are landing every eight minutes? Now that it's _never_ OK to do it in the main areas, we'll see if things change.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I forgot Gile. He won't be allowed to swoop either. But Brian voluntarily took himself out of the game last year, so he doesn't really count. Sorry Brian.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

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Kelly will be assigned a mirror and he'll be looking at himself 24/7 (maybe he's already doing that)

THATS THE FUNNIEST F***ING THING I HAVE HERD ALL DAY!!!!

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

Dont' forget big Dan and Striker!

[polarbear 1]

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If banning anything over a 180 is such an obvious and necessary
> solutionto this problem, why didn't Larry/Bryan have that rule in effect at
>the holiday boogie, where it might have actually done some good?

They did; I was told when I registered. Most people ignored it. From what people have said recently, they are finally enforcing it.

Really? I was there for 4 days; I never heard one thing about it. There were LOTS of people doing big turns on every single load - I never heard or saw anybody get chewed out for it. No announcements over the loudspeaker. Nothing in the boogie briefing.

My comment was meant to be a rhetorical question that would highlight what I perceive to be the fallacy in SDA's rule and the attitude behind it. If their new rule was meant to be a quick fix to an immediate problem while they came up with something better, I wouldn't have a problem. But their attitude that it is the only possible solution and that they are going to convince everyone else to follow the same rule is, in my opinion, bogus. I think they've come up with a lazy solution that will only be partially effective and I don't think they have any business pushing it on anyone else.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[Spizzzarko 0]

CJ is right. This is only a band aid to the problem that needs an amputation.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Dont' forget big Dan and Striker!

Dan Self? He's too tall to be a swooper. Cut him off at the knees to be the same height as the rest of us and then let's see how well he does. No swooping for Dan. Striker? I'm not so sure I know Striker? Is he Renfro? If not, then you guys will need to deal with him. But no swooping for anyone named Striker regardless. Speaking of Renfro. Shit I only met the guy the one time last year at SDO, but anyone who can't even get through round #1 without a reserve ride shouldn't be allowed to swoop (though we should give him some credit for trying to swoop his reserve through the entry gates). No Renfro needs to be sent back to packing class and then once proficient he can join you packing tandems (or become Tom's bitch ... his choice).

Of course in all of this how could we forget Eldon? I say we should let Eldon continue to swoop. Where else are we going to get our "better him than us" entertainment.

Now most of these peeps I speak of are either from the swampy pond of SDO or the rest of you Sno-homer-sexuals. I could pick on the folks down in Kapow. But who am I to tell a bunch of Kapow peeps what to do. They do after all own their own DZ. With that in mind, how cool is that. A DZ owned by a bunch of swoopers. Even their girls are good swoopers. Maybe that's where we can continue to swoop after all the other DZs outlaw us.

Swooping is NOT a crime.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

Eldon is Striker you dipshit cannuk. and by the way it's Shepowsin.

[flytrybe 0]

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I think they've come up with a lazy solution that will only be partially effective and I don't think they have any business pushing it on anyone else.

I agree.

Also, the current design of the landing areas has NEVER been ideal, but it is safe when it's experienced people, locals that are flying in that area. I saw it become sketchy a few times with military and visitors.
And once I was literally inches from a mid air collision due to a funky pattern provided courtesy of some military dude attempting to land on the alternate, yes I was in the the middle of a 270, that was just over a year ago.

I strongly believe that separated landing areas IS THE ONLY solution to hi-po pilots running into unpredictable slower people. The problem is that solution is expensive and that SAD is a business like all DZs.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Eldon is Striker

LOL ... that only makes sense.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ianmdrennan 2]

Hey guys, banter is fun and all but please remember this is a pretty serious topic that affects us all we're discussing so lets try keep it somewhat on track, k?
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[morris 0]

I´m right now in Eloy and in the alternate landing area you can only do 90degree turns, the 180dregree in the mainlandingarea goes for the desert as well.
On hopnpops you still can play, but you have to announce before what you´ll be doing and hopnpops aren´t possible all the time...
from what I´ve seen so far the rule isn´t making traffic any safer at all, it even seems to be the opposite as now faster canopies are turning lower and cutting through the slow traffic right before landing.
Omar asked me to tell Larry I´m dissapointed about the new rule (havn´t done it so far but I will) cause he doesn´t seem to listen to the locals.
So maybe it would make sense if more persons speak up?!

[supafly 0]

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So maybe it would make sense if more persons speak up?!

Yes! Please do. Honest opinions expressed in a respectful way that support a more 'swooper-friendly' solution are exactly what is needed.

Arizona Drive 4-Way VFS - www.DriveVFS.com

[diablopilot 2]

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You can go to to skydive Oregon, I can assure you the DZO Joe Webber has his shit together and a swoop only landing area, It's too bad more DZ's aren't modeled after this one.

blues skies

Jerry

That's because Joe is a kind, carring, wise, and fair human being, who has only good intentions, and the welfare of all mankind in his heart.


He likes puppies too.




(Gawd I hope you're reading this Joe)

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Could be worse Smiley, no more swooping for you either. You've been relegated to being either a full-time Tandem packing bitch or Tom Sander's bitch. Your call ...

I know Ian doesn't want too much more banter going on. So this will be my last banter post in this thread. But I had a brain fart earlier. Smiley is going to have to be Tom Phillips bitch, not Tom Sanders. I'm sure he knew who I was referring to. But just in case ... no more swooping for Smiley ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[TAXIWAY 0]

I think banning any thing is a band aide soulution to a greater problem. Separate landing areas make more sense. I would go to a different drop zone if they told me I couldn't swoop. Swooping can be done safely. I totally agree that nothing more than a 90 should be done in traffic. But if you open high wait for clear airspace and do a 270,360 or whatever you should have that right, if it can be done out of the traffic zone. I don't mind a short walk.

I think more training and safty meetings on the topic is a better solution than banning. It all about awareness so have it some dont.

[dlee 0]

How is a 90 or 180 any "safer" than a 270?

I can get a decent swoop and tons of speed with either.

I was in Z-hills this past weekend and there was a dude that broke his leg after a canopy collision, ambulance helicopter, the whole nine yards and neither he nor the other person were swooping.

same load I saw a guy do a huge 270 and land right next to nylon city just fine, no collision, no problem. same number of people on the ground...

[Spizzzarko 0]

So there is another one?

[PhreeZone 15]

Are you refering to the helicopter ride that resulted in a fatality eventually as part of the big way or was there a seperate collision?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,400]

>Really? I was there for 4 days; I never heard one thing about it.

I heard about it when I registered. A lot of people were pretty studiously ignoring the briefing while they were registering; sort of a "yeah yeah where do I sign so I can jump?" sort of thing. (Not just for that issue.)

>My comment was meant to be a rhetorical question that would highlight
>what I perceive to be the fallacy in SDA's rule and the attitude behind it. If
>their new rule was meant to be a quick fix to an immediate problem while
>they came up with something better, I wouldn't have a problem.

I think their new rule is just the next thing they could think of. If "jumper awareness" and "education" and "common sense" etc etc could solve the problem, then they wouldn't have done anything like this. But there have been too many deaths there, I think, and there are a small subset of skydivers who don't listen to anything other than a grounding threat.

>I think they've come up with a lazy solution that will only be partially
>effective . . .

Any solution to this will only be partially effective. You could require everyone to have 40 hours of canopy flight education before jumping at Eloy and someone will still manage to kill themselves.

>and I don't think they have any business pushing it on anyone else.

If it works at all, they won't have to "push" it - others will adopt it because they want to avoid the same thing happening to them. The one way to stop this is to, ourselves, stop arrogant swoopers from doing 270's in traffic. But that will never happen.