Stiletto 150 to Xfire 139 (what to expect)

[matt3sa 0]

Moving from a Stiletto 150 to a Crossfire 1 139. Anyone made this transition? Any thoughts on what to expect for major differences? Any neat excercises to practice on the new canopy?

[AggieDave 6]

I went from a Heatwave 170 to a stiletto 170 to a XF2 149. The difference was significant. I would have benefited greatly from jumping a XF2 169 for a while before downsizing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[piisfish 135]

expect different kinds of toggle turns, longer dives and recvery, better openings, longer toggle stroke also specially at the end of the flare (with more flare power).

Stay safe. Play safe. If your profile is up to date, whatever weight you have, I wouldn't recommend this (or the previous) canopy.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Martini 0]

Please don't take this as an attack as that's not my intent but shouldn't you know what to expect before changing canopies? Why change if you don't have a goal in mind?

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[airborne82nd 0]

execuse some of these others dude with their dribble

whats yoru wing loading??

the crossfire isnt going to turn as fast as the stileto and it will take more toggle to get it to turn. so its slower in the turn but when you swoop it and come in fast the controls catch up nicly and its nicely reactive. i have a friend with a crossfire 139 come inand land a cobalt 135 and he was all over the place whn flaring since the cobalt was so reactiive and thats magnafied with speed.

your flare on the stileto is about 3/4 at most but with the crossfire you can flare to your feet if your arms are long enough.

the glide is going to blow you away also and the forward speed will feel faster with the crossfire becuase it will be by comparison under simuler wing loading but your stepping up.

you wont beable to do those diablo super turns and spin your self sick like you can with the stileto.

it also will take much longer to recover then the stileto. the crossfire wants to dive and build speed and recover slowly it has its won recovery arc its not slow its designed that way but spped builds fast.

tell the other guy that your goal is super soft on heading opennings a awesome glide a super easy canopy to land ( and it is the flare is so simple honeslty an aff student could land this canopy ) i know someone off aff got a crossfire 1 159 at 30 jumps had a triathlon 150 and couldnt land it he got a crossfire not knowing what it was and he landed that thing great. funny story he has lots of jumps and has a smaller crossfire point is its an easy canopy to land you need to have experiece to fly it.

and to begin swoop.ing.

oh the best goal is to stop yourfreefall and get you safely to the ground.

it also wont spin when you have line twist isnt that a releif.

[packing_jarrett 0]

having made similar down size. (stiletto 120- xfire 99) was the recovery arc.

Dude you need to start your turns much much higher on the crossfire than on the stiletto

Na' Cho' Cheese

[ianmdrennan 2]

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execuse some of these others dude with their dribble

whats yoru wing loading??

So far I see no dribble in this thread. At 310 jumps I wouldn't recommend a XF2 to this jumper anyway, regardless of loading. There are better canopies to be on at this stage of the progression (Safire2, Sabre2, etc)

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it also wont spin when you have line twist isnt that a releif.

Not true. I know people who've had spinning XF2 cutaways. That, of course, does not mean it doesnt fly well in linetwists. Most canopies do as long as the pilot has kept the harness input level.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[piisfish 135]

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having made similar down size. (stiletto 120- xfire 99) was the recovery arc.

Dude you need to start your turns much much higher on the crossfire than on the stiletto

150 to 139 is a 11 sq ft difference (less than 10% )
120 to 99 is a 21 sq ft difference (almost 20%)

yeah yeah similar downsize..

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[AggieDave 6]

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Not true. I know people who've had spinning XF2 cutaways. That, of course, does not mean it doesnt fly well in linetwists. Most canopies do as long as the pilot has kept the harness input level.

The last cutaway I had was a XF2 spinning through 2k. I consider myself to be an "ok" canopy pilot with over 2000 jumps, but I still got caught by an XF2 spinning on my back...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[norbase 0]

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execuse some of these others dude with their dribble

whats yoru wing loading??

So far I see no dribble in this thread. At 310 jumps I wouldn't recommend a XF2 to this jumper anyway, regardless of loading. There are better canopies to be on at this stage of the progression (Safire2, Sabre2, etc)

It is possible that this guy may not have his profile updated... and he have much more jumps than 310..

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it also wont spin when you have line twist isnt that a releif.

Not true. I know people who've had spinning XF2 cutaways. That, of course, does not mean it doesnt fly well in linetwists. Most canopies do as long as the pilot has kept the harness input level.

Blues,
Ian

[rhys 0]

No but i moved from a heatwave 120 to a crossfire 109,

not the same at all but similar in the differences.

you will notice that the openings take longer and are much more predictable and nice, a bit strange at first but you will get used to it. the crossfire flies much nicer and definately hs a longer recovery arc.

How many jumps do you have on the stiletto?

the flare is much longer on the crossfire than the stiletto so make sure you practice this up high.

you will come to love your crossfire and i congratulate you on your choice. however be most careful please with your jump numbers and such a different canopy you can get yourself in trouble.

if you take some canopy coaching now it would be ideal and will keep you safe and your learning curve shorter.

safe jumping

Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[matt3sa 0]

Hey everyone, thanks for your all of the information. No offence taken to the folks that are trying to steer me in a safe direction. I took Scott Millers canopy course around 100 jumps as I transitioned from a Sabre 1 170 to a Stiletto 170. I stuck with the Stiletto 170 until about 200 jumps. For the last 100 or so I've been on the Stiletto 150. My exit weight is around 200. This should put me around the entry level wing load for the Xfire1 (1.3-1.4). I've dedicated a large portion of my jumps to canopy work (opening at 10k).

[airborne82nd 0]

listen any canopy can spin in line twist,

but line twist on a crossfire and line twist on a diablo or stileto are a huge difference.

i have had line twist on my crossfire loaded 1.43 many times very easy to deal with.

line twist on a diblo or stileto a scary picture no matter how level you are in the harness.

people want to argue stupid little details pointless. the crossfire is a simple easy canopy to fly and land you dont need 500 jumps to jump it if you understand not to go front riser it. the crossfire dives but toggle it deosnt realy act like any hard canopy to fly.

infact many people fly the crossfire and think since its not a fast reactive truning canopy its too slow for them.

and i am telling you if i could land a crossfire anyone can.

i also jumped a crossfire 109 landed it fine and thn put a few jumps on a katana 120 wow was i over my head with the katana.

the crossfire is an awesomecanopy dont let anyone scare you, i seen several people get hurt swooping stiletos and my friend hit the hanger with his foot. the recover so low and force you to make your turn lower but they do recover quick.

i am glad i could answer your question for you

[ianmdrennan 2]

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and i am telling you if i could land a crossfire anyone can.

i also jumped a crossfire 109 landed it fine

If you judge your ability to handle a canopy simply by 'landing it' you're going to get way over your head really quickly.

Smaller and HP canopies require so much more attention from opening until landing in regards to closing rates, altitude loss, pattern entry, levels, etc that landing is a small part of the equation. Albeit it's the part people notice the most but it's not the only thing to consider when changing planforms and size.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[airborne82nd 0]

if you dont know that a crossfire is much more docile then a stileto under a 1.2 wing loading, you havent jumped a crossfire.

lanidning it is simple, flying it is simple it opens easy it doesnt spin like crazy on opening the flare is easy deep and you can dead stop it, verry predictable flare, the glide is no flat so your not falling out of the sky.

you can not get over your head with a crossfire unless you do a foolish front riser dive or do a low turn.

but then again that will happen on a traithlon also.

in my opinion a crossfire is safer more stable and easyer to fly then a spineto.

why you people want to argue about split hair details and make points about getting over your head, that is possible with any canopy if you over load it.

i have jumped many canopys in the high performance range under a crossbrace and have jumped the katana and fx.

the corssfire is the easy canopy to fly at simuler wing loading to the others.

now if you were talking about a katana or mamaba or blade then i would say yes those canpies can put you way over your head uick but a crossfire? cmon man have you jumped one really?? with a light loading under 1.4??

[hparrish 0]

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if you dont know that a crossfire is much more docile then a stileto under a 1.2 wing loading, you havent jumped a crossfire.

lanidning it is simple, flying it is simple it opens easy it doesnt spin like crazy on opening the flare is easy deep and you can dead stop it, verry predictable flare, the glide is no flat so your not falling out of the sky.

you can not get over your head with a crossfire unless you do a foolish front riser dive or do a low turn.

but then again that will happen on a traithlon also.

in my opinion a crossfire is safer more stable and easyer to fly then a spineto.

why you people want to argue about split hair details and make points about getting over your head, that is possible with any canopy if you over load it.

i have jumped many canopys in the high performance range under a crossbrace and have jumped the katana and fx.

the corssfire is the easy canopy to fly at simuler wing loading to the others.

now if you were talking about a katana or mamaba or blade then i would say yes those canpies can put you way over your head uick but a crossfire? cmon man have you jumped one really?? with a light loading under 1.4??

Hey Man.............Just an FYI...............You're arguing with someone who has proven themself on the CPC and now the PST. Ian is a Pro Swooper........What are your credentials?

[ianmdrennan 2]

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if you dont know that a crossfire is much more docile then a stileto under a 1.2 wing loading, you havent jumped a crossfire.

Actually I've jumped a Original XF 139, XF2 119, XF2 109, ST 135, ST 120, ST 107, KA 107, KA 89, Blade 97, FX 119 and FX 104 of the canopies you've mentioned. I have not jumped a triathlon or mamba. Just trying to lay down some info on what I've jumped so hopefully it lends some credibility to what I'm suggesting here.

Now, I want to be clear before I address your post that I am NOT advocating a Stiletto over a XF2 but what concerns me is what I believe to be misinformation that the XF2 is suitable for anyone. That is what I plan on addressing in this post:

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lanidning it is simple, flying it is simple it opens easy it doesnt spin like crazy on opening the flare is easy deep and you can dead stop it, verry predictable flare, the glide is no flat so your not falling out of the sky.

A ST flies flatter than a XF2. The ST is more 'nippy' in the sky at the same loading and while the xf2 starts to turn slower, once going it can really crank around the turns with FAR more altitude loss than the ST.

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you can not get over your head with a crossfire unless you do a foolish front riser dive or do a low turn.

And how exactly would you define in over your head then? No one plans on pounding in. What happens when the pilot is cut off or has to land in a back yard or has a spinner and loses way more altitude than they expected? Hell a super experienced pilot just died in Eloy after making a radical avoidence manuever.

No matter what you think, the XF2 really is a high performance canopy - ask Johnny.

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that is possible with any canopy if you over load it.

True that loading speeds everything up. False if you think it's the only factor and ignore size, planform and a myriad of other factors.

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the corssfire is the easy canopy to fly at simuler wing loading to the others.

With the right experience and skill, sure.

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now if you were talking about a katana or mamaba or blade then i would say yes those canpies can put you way over your head uick but a crossfire? cmon man have you jumped one really?? with a light loading under 1.4??

The XF2 is in the same category of canopy as the Blade, Mamba and Katana.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Tonto 1]

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with a light loading under 1.4??

The OP has 300 dives in 3 years.
They are downsizing.
They weigh "about 200" out the door.
The Crossfire they are contemplating is a 135.

How do you work that out as a wing loading of under 1.4?

Your opening paragraph in this thread says

I cant emphasize enough about taking your time and forcing yourself to go slow.

I think you're giving very dangerous and conflicting advice.

I think your opinion of your flying skills at 650 dives is statistically likely to be higher than you will think it is when you have 2000 jumps.

I think you like the Crossfire, and because it's a good canopy for you, you think (incorrectly) that it's a good canopy for someone else. There is a reason there are other canopies on the market.

Feel free to respond, or start another thread.

Maybe you're right. Maybe you know more than Ian, and maybe you know more than me. After reading a thread in incidents I suspect I may not be a "real" canopy pilot anyway.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[airborne82nd 0]

well i wont keep arguging you guys dont like when anyone disagrees with you.

you guys are also not ones who follww your own advice.

i dont give any conflicting advice, i answered his question unlike you guys, just the facts of the diference of that canopies. just becuase you guys go on a condasending crussade everytime someone asks you guys a question and you wonder why they dont listen to you.

the crossfire is the most docile hp canopy period it is a fact. if you do a low turn on anything your dead so theres no point to that.

i dont know howmany jumps you need to pilot one maybee 300 but ill say this i think you need say 800 to handle a fx or katana.

since i have more mamba jumps then you both i think i can talk about the mamaba.

this person is going down 11 square feet in canopy. and he is going to a more docile canopy capable of a full flare unlike the stileto. and its a crossfire 1 and not 2. in my opinion the stileto poses more chalenges and dangers then does the crossfire. i have had 3 line twist and been spinning pulling g's going down fast. diablo and stiletos spin insanly fast crossfires dont.

you cant argue with the truth of the canopy characteristics.

here is the posters pm to me

Hey, thanks for giving the lowdown on the Xfire1. That's really what I was looking for and you were one of the only people that actually answered the question.

Blue Skies,
Matt

[dharma1976 0]

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Not true. I know people who've had spinning XF2 cutaways. That, of course, does not mean it doesnt fly well in linetwists. Most canopies do as long as the pilot has kept the harness input level.

I had a nasty back spinner on a Crossfire2...it can happen

I love my crossfire regardless

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Tonto 1]

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the most docile hp canopy

Is that like the bluntest sharp knife?
Or the lightest 1 ton truck?
Or the slowest fast bike?

I think it's more about the pilot than the canopy.

Although the OP has thanked you in a PM, I think they could benefit more from a more structured progression.

Any advice I give on this forum is aimed at being a little conservative.
I've never seen the skill set that either you or the OP have. I do know that jumpers with 300 jumps in 3 years, in a geographical region prone to uncurrency, who weigh "around 200" and are going to a 135 - any 135 - are going onto my "watch list" for the incidents forum.

Sorry I'm conservative. Sorry I'm old and crusty. I really like skydivers who are alive, and who don't limp.

Blue Skies,

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[DiggerDan 0]

This is one seriously pointless thread! The original poster jumped to a Stiletto at 100 jumps, only spent 100 jumps on that before downsizing, and now is going to a much heavier loaded Xfire at 300 jumps. There is no point in wasting your breath with advice here.

In another 100 jumps or os, they should be ready for a Velo anyway, and we can just wait to discuss what went wrong in another forum.

[matt3sa 0]

Once again everyone, thanks for all of the advice, but the last person that made a comment is correct. It's pointless to keep this going. I'm comfortable with myself and I've progressed quickly from canopy to canopy. I sincerely believe I've reached my potential on the Stiletto 150. The recovery arc is just too short. I don't like the idea of having to execute my maneuvers so low to get enough speed. I'm just looking for a canopy that dives longer and I'm looking for more speed. None of you are really wrong about any of the advice you've given me, but as previously stated I've already made my decision. Thanks for your concern, but my question was only related to differences between the two canopies. (and yes i was incorrect on my wingloading calculations).

[dharma1976 0]

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This is one seriously pointless thread! The original poster jumped to a Stiletto at 100 jumps, only spent 100 jumps on that before downsizing, and now is going to a much heavier loaded Xfire at 300 jumps. There is no point in wasting your breath with advice here.

In another 100 jumps or os, they should be ready for a Velo anyway, and we can just wait to discuss what went wrong in another forum.

I was about to say you can expect to get bitched at

But you already did it

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[DiggerDan 0]

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Once again everyone, thanks for all of the advice, but the last person that made a comment is correct. It's pointless to keep this going. I'm comfortable with myself and I've progressed quickly from canopy to canopy. I sincerely believe I've reached my potential on the Stiletto 150. The recovery arc is just too short. I don't like the idea of having to execute my maneuvers so low to get enough speed. I'm just looking for a canopy that dives longer and I'm looking for more speed. None of you are really wrong about any of the advice you've given me, but as previously stated I've already made my decision. Thanks for your concern, but my question was only related to differences between the two canopies. (and yes i was incorrect on my wingloading calculations).

And THIS is exactly the response I would expect. Classic!