Ground Launching/Paragliding

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey everyone,

I was hoping I can get some help from some peple who I know are already involved in this. I am really interested in ground launching, but I am not adventurous enough to take my Spectre 135 down a hill. I was actually thinking of buying myself a paraglider. I love being up in the air under canopy.

How much of a direct linkis there between skydiving canopies and paragliders. I know the glide ratio is different and they're bigger, but as far as control and safety goes. Do theyhave reserves if you have ot bail for whatever reason etc...

If anyone can post some good beginner paraglider links, that would be great too. Any other advice for a noob would be cool.

Thanks so much guys. Also, if anyone has comments on my GL'ing my 135 please let me know. From what I've gathered alot of people say GL'ing is worse than base jumping, but I find that difficult to believe because you are under a fully infated canopy. I understand about thermals, collapses, impact etc, but I wouldn't be trying to swoop the hill, I'd just love to glide down as high as I can without paying for a plane ride. A paraglider would be absolutely fine for me too, Thanks

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[mgattini 0]

Hi, abvousely there are some links between skydiving canopies and pg, they are both ram air airfoils.. Pg was actually started by using skydiving wings. Because of the high aspect ratio, the low wing loading and the way pg are trimmed to be able to gain lift they are more unstable then skydiving canopies. There is though a system to measure how long it will take a pg to recover from a stall (and also other flight characteristics) called the DHV.A DHV 1 will recover most of the time with no pilot input and will due it very rapidly, conversly a DHV 3 is more unstable and a recovery will require pilot input thus making it a more high performance wing used mostly for cross country competition and by the more experienced pilots. Most smart pg pilots use a reserve, typically a PDA ( pulled down apex) round. Just like skydiving the FAA does not require you to have a federal certificate do fly them in the USA and just like USPA there is the USHGPA ( sp?) which is a association for paragliders and hangliders alike. To fly most of the really good known sites in the US you will need a rating from them, just like you would need one from USPA to jump and the nicest DZ. The ratings are P-1,P-2,P-3 , H-1, H-2....P-2 is what you will want to get. It typically will cost you around $1500 to get it and around $2500-$5000 for gear, for used or new, respectively. In PG most of the time the objective, aside from having a good time,is to stay aloft and go as far as possible ( you can do aerobatics but it would be something you start doing much later on in you flying much like swooping). With GL the canpoies are much more stableand the objective is usually to stay close to the ground and go fast, you can also ridge soar but it is quit week compred to what you can do in a PG. Kiting is a basic skill for both GL and PG. Kiting a skydiving canopy is easer then a PG and so it might be a good idea to start doing that first and once you get good move on to kiting a PG. Ojovolador.com is proabably the best website for PG and has links to all the other PG in the world. Jim Slaton runs a good operation out in California for GL but i think if you first become a PG ground launching can be self taught, although I would strongly recomend talking to Jim and making sure you know what you are doing before getting hurt. Pagen( do not remember his first name ) makes a good book and PG and is also and expert on micrometerology and would also be another book to pick up and learn for what you want to do. PG generally launch between 2-12 knot winds while Gl is typically between 5-25 knot and so knowing how to do both will get you the best of both worlds and you won't have to wait at a site for the winds to pick up or go down. Wow this is a really long post and I am not going to spell check it all, sorry Cheers......

[Velopilot 0]

You need to take this post over to canopypiloting.com in the Ground Launch forum. You'll get some good feedback there.

[Pendragon 1]

Paraglider wings behave quite differently to parachutes and, with the higher performance wings, can react quite violently to turbulence if not actively piloted.

Best bet is to find a local school; try the Hang gliding and Paragliding Association of Canada (HPAC) - www.hpac.ca or the USHPA www.ushga.org

People who can ground-launch parachutes do not understand how to fly paragliders. Ask a paraglider pilot!

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks for the posts guys. I appreciate the links and PM's.

Does anyone have info on recommended jump nubers before looking into GLing a canopy such as my Spectre 135 at my wingloading? I hear higher wingloadings are a bit better (1.3-1.6 range), but I would think a little lighter would be easier to get up and stay up. Also, any ideas of what kind of site would be required for very basic GL'ing. Just enough for me to practice kiting, and once I've got that down, try running and going on very short launches. I mean, I've come in for landing at my DZ, caught a thermal and stopped descending, or went up without flaring.

Am I considering this way too soon in my skydiving career? I would love to go to the GL school, but california is a bit of a jump for me. I'm not interested in swooping the ground or anything, I simply want to fly.

I will continue this post on canopypiloting.com, but I have to wait for my password and I can't get to my email from work.

Thanks again guys!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[oosskis 0]

How much is your health worth?
Go take a course in either sport. You will hurt yourself if you don't. It's just a matter of time.
For kiting, a place with consistent winds between 7-15kts will do. Don't wear your harness until you know you're not going to get dragged all over the place.
I'm not going to touch which hill you want to go down, go to canopypiloting.com, better yet, buck up and go to Cali to learn.

"Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets.

[JasonAndrews 0]

Hi Chris,
I haven't been skydiving (yet). I am an experienced paraglider though and I'd definately recommend getting instruction. I have met skydivers that have converted to paragling and they have some basic misconceptions about the apparent similarities between the equipment.

Paragliders are rated according to several systems. Europeans use the DHV system (German). This rates wings according to their recovery characteristics (from collapses) and various pilot inputs in flight.

DHV1 is the most stable for begginers
DHV1-2 is low intermediate
DHV2 is intermediate
DHV2-3 is for experience pilots flying regularly
uncertified wings - you take your chances!

In addition, they come in sizes according to your all-up weight (you, clothes, wing, harness etc).

Most paragliders fly with a reserve chute.

There is also the option of D-bagging... carefully packed paragliders can be launched from a special bag (D-bag) from microlights, ballons, helicopters etc....

My brother's website shows a lot of videos you can watch online, find the free-flight section...
www.marksparaglidingpages.com

I have also seen skydivers launching with very small wings when I was in Annecy, France. To be honest, given the rubbish glide angle, I can't see why they would bother when a paraglider will let you fly for a couple of hours and also endulge in aerobatics (a lot of fun - see my new acro clip http://www.inair.nl/video/airdrenalinetrailer.wmv) and thermalling and stuff.

Anyway if you do decide to try paragliding, paraglidingforum.com has lots of friendly pilots ready to help you.

Regards,
Jason Andrews

[Pendragon 1]

Quote

DHV1-2 is low intermediate

Just to clarify - DHV1-2 has become a rather large band and some of the gliders certified in this range are not suitable for beginners

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[rhys 0]

Quote

Does anyone have info on recommended jump nubers before looking into GLing a canopy such as my Spectre 135 at my wingloading?

I started with a falcon 170 and a maveric 200 and worked my way through vengence 170 stiletto 135 crossfire 120 and down to a crossfire 109.

all on the same slope. when i was on the bigger stuff the winds were light and the smaller stuff the winds were stronger.

So it really depends on you skill level, the hill you are flying, the wind speed and your confidence.

good accuracy really helps with ground launching so experience with straight approaches and 90's is reccomended although i know of groundlaunchers with no skydiving or paragliding experience at all.

you can practice on the flat ground kiting your canopy with forward and reverse launches and find a nice gentle slope to get the hang of actually trying to launch. but don't attempt any significant flights without some sort of training or advice from experienced people.

this sounds frustrating but shit man i saw my mate bend himself because he was a bit too keen and it was not a fun experience!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix