Canopy Coward

[stuartledden 0]

I've done just over 140 jumps now, and have no problem with the exit and freefall part of skydiving.I feel comfortable in the sky, and believe that I am making good progress developing my skills in my chosen discipline (formation skydiving).
However I still never feel really comfortable under canopy.
I have no problem with landings, it's just I'm reluctant to explore the full range of the canopy.
For example I've never applied maximum left or right toggle, or stalled the canopy.
Just wondered if it's just me being a chicken, or do other skydivers have similar reservations during the canopy ride.
Any comments/advice much appreciated.
Thank you.

Don't forget to pull your stopping ropes!

[mangledspoon 0]

Well I have a lot less jumps than you, but yes I feel quite uncomfortable with the canopy part still!
It just freaks me out, I'll be ages away from a tree / fence and I'll think that it's really close when it isn't.... so I'll turn away from the LZ just so I can land 'safely' when I probably would have landed safe anyway... it's nuts.
I'm hoping I'll eventually get over this, I already have 2 off-DZ landings and many landings which are about 50m+ away from the target... not to mention the downwinders...
I haven't really done much stalling either, I did it once during my AFF and almost shit myself


In short, I am probably the crappiest canopy pilot ever

[Peej 0]

Stu,

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with being a conservative canopy pilot. I know plenty of people wih hundreds and thousands of jumps who have no desire to get into performance flying.

However i do think it's important that you find out what your canopy can do and learn what inputs do what, etc (all up high of course), including where your stall point is. These are just incase you ever need to use those inputs to get out of a sticky situation one day.

I'd suggest you talk to the experienced canopy pilots on your DZ, people you can talk to in the flesh and ask them what canopy drills you can do up high to help you better understand your canopy.

Have you read Brian Germain's book "The Parachute and its Pilot"? That's another really good idea.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[Tonto 1]

Hi Stuart,

Peej has given really good input.

A couple of questions..

What are you loading your Pilot at?

Can you imagine driving a car without using it's full steering input?

If you could drive a car without using it's full steering input, do you think it would make you more or less safe?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Pendragon 1]

FYI - maximum toggle input isn't necessarily so radical an input. The speed at which you yank it down can make it a radical input. The same goes for other types of input. Again, to re-iterate, experiment with your canopy high - >1,000ft at least.

My guess it that you're jumping too small a canopy (and it feels twitchy to you) for your experience level, and should upsize - and it sounds like you're not particularly enjoying it. Unless you're small, given what you've said, a 150 is way too small for you. Maybe a 170 or 190 might be better?

Richard

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[stuartledden 0]

Thanks for your input guys.
I think maybe the best thing for me to do is sign up for a canopy control course because if a qualified instructor tells me to do a certain exercise, then I know I'll go up there and do precisely as I'm told, and maybe I'll gain some confidence in my canopy's capability that way.

I weigh 175 lbs so I estimate my exit weight to be around 195lbs giving me a loading of about 1.3.

It's just comforting to know I'm not the only one who gets a little nervy under canopy, as when I look around, everyone else seems to be doing max rate turns, spiraling and generally throwing their canopy around the sky!

Don't forget to pull your stopping ropes!

[TKATC 0]

WOW...140 jumps and your already at a 1.3 wing loading? I am sure there are a few people that have been alot more agressive than you are, but I would like to know what your progression was to start jumping a 150. Is that your first canopy after getting a license or what?

[Zoso 2]

Stuart,

1.3 to 1 is definately a heavy wing loading for a jumper with 140 jumps. 1.0 to 1 is usually a good wing loading for someone with your experience. That puts you at roughly 2 levels heavier than recommended which easily explains part of your situation.

My 170 Sabre 2 is loaded at barely over 1.0 to 1 and I find it to be very zippy for my needs. On no wind days I feel that I come in quite fast for landings.

Remember if you change your canopy though that wing loading isn't everything. A fully elliptical canopy loaded at 1.0 to 1 will be far more twitchy than a semi-elliptical canopy loaded the same.

[stuartledden 0]

The reason I ended up with a 150 canopy is that my brother uses a sabre 150, and I borrowed his rig for a trip to Z-Hills last year and whilst I found it very responsive after my student canopy ( a 220), I liked the positive control it gave me, and had no problem with the landings, so when I bought my own rig I chose the Pilot 150 which again I have no problems landing.
It's just that as I said in my original post I'm very reluctant to use it to it's full capability because in the back of my mind I'm always thinking - what do I do if my canopy collapses!
I think I just need to learn to have more faith in my canopy!

Don't forget to pull your stopping ropes!

[bob.dino 0]

A wingloading of 1.3:1 is high for your experience level. It's not uncommon for an over-aggressive downsize to leave the jumper nervous of wringing their canopy out. This then slows their learning down more than staying on a larger canopy would have...

Get thyself to a canopy coach and work out some drills with them.

[NWPoul 1]

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Thanks for your input guys.
I think maybe the best thing for me to do is sign up for a canopy control course because if a qualified instructor tells me to do a certain exercise, then I know I'll go up there and do precisely as I'm told, and maybe I'll gain some confidence in my canopy's capability that way.

So You already know the right answer

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I weigh 175 lbs so I estimate my exit weight to be around 195lbs giving me a loading of about 1.3.

It's just comforting to know I'm not the only one who gets a little nervy under canopy, as when I look around, everyone else seems to be doing max rate turns, spiraling and generally throwing their canopy around the sky!

H-mm Pilot at WL 1.3?...not bad and should be pretty fun...personally I would be hestitate to burn one togle all way down too but playing with stall (after discussing with Instructor (better) or experienced pilot (at least) IMHO should be usefull (and as it was mentioned here - left enough altitude for yourself ;))

Just My newbee's opinion - untill you a little "cowarded" and respect your canopy at your WL - you relativately in safe...when you'll "find out" that you know your canopy well and start to push it...you start to walcking to the "dark side"
at this point the most desirable thing it's a...mistake!...a little mistake, that don't hurt you much but enough to skare you and show how EXACTLY things can go wrond...so you become a little "cowarded" and prudent (but at "next level") again...till next XXX jumps, then next mistake and next level:)

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Tonto
Can you imagine driving a car without using it's full steering input?

If you could drive a car without using it's full steering input, do you think it would make you more or less safe?

H-mm Do You use FULL steering range when driving a car (untill you parcking or similar)???

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

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[FreeFlyFridge 0]

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H-mm Do You use FULL steering range when driving a car (untill you parcking or similar)???

You could look at it this way: parking your car = landing your parachute!

------------------------------------------------------
ROCK ON,.....HARD!
Proud European!!

[NWPoul 1]

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H-mm Do You use FULL steering range when driving a car (untill you parcking or similar)???

You could look at it this way: parking your car = landing your parachute!

Bad anology "(and offtop)
but landing a parachute (left alone hiperformance landing) is like using brakes not steering...
Of course if you don't^
Parcking your car using full throttle acceleration and sharp turn
or
Landing your parachute slowly pull one toggle all way down you are

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[Peej 0]

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Tonto
Can you imagine driving a car without using it's full steering input?

If you could drive a car without using it's full steering input, do you think it would make you more or less safe?

H-mm Do You use FULL steering range when driving a car (untill you parcking or similar)???

[NWPoul 1]

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Not all the time, but isn't it nice to know that you have the ability to use all of your car's controls just in case you need them? I think that's what he was getting at.

Of course it's nice, both for canopies and cars

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[gus 1]

Brian Germain's "The Parachute and its Pilot" is an excellent way of learning what you need to learn, it's a very accessible read. I will gladly post you my copy if you would like it. Seriously.
Our British weather does not always make it easy but all I would recommend is spending a whole weekend opening at 10k and slowly, conservatively exploring your parachutes envelope. That doesn't necessarily mean doing anything radical or scary but I really think it would be worthwhile and it may give your confidence and safety a massive boost.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[stuartledden 0]

Thank you all for your comments and advice it really is much appreciated!

Regards,

Stuart.

Don't forget to pull your stopping ropes!