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Miami

Time to get a 'speed' cypres2?

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Wing suits have different flight characteristics than sandom people falling from the sky for which modern gear was designed for. Those who jump the wing suits should take those characteristics into account when they choose the gear that they are jumping. If some one wants to jump a velocity 90 with a wing suit and a speed cypres that is up to them. Is it the wisest choice? Not really, but people do stupid things. Maybe a stilleto was not the wisest choice in the case you cited.

Personally If I were jumping wing suits and felt the need for a cypres then I would not use a speed cypres nor my 96 velocity loaded at 2.3. Could I jump the 96 with a wing suit? Sure, but is it the best choice? No. I choose to jump my 96 for the swooping aspect of the sport. I personally feel the added insurance of a cypres is a good purchase because I do AFF here and there. Whith the turn I perform I have moved into a realm where the cypres or cypres 2 can possibly fire. Therefore I feel that I should taylor my gear choices accordingly. With this choice of gear there are limitations involved so I will taylor my activities to accomodate my gear also. No wing suit jumps for me with my 96 and a speed cypres. Personally I think a bigger canopy wouldn't hurt in a lot of situations.

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I am not sure how we got on the wingsuit tangent, but I can give you a lot of examples of quite-experienced wingsuit guys who regularly jump small crossbraces with their suits:

-Jay Moledzski either jumps a Velo 75 (maybe that 71 now) or his BASE rig with his wingsuit.

-Chris Martin made every single one of his 800+ wingsuit jumps under a Xaos loaded above 2.0

-Jari Kuosma routinely jumped a Velo 75 loaded around 2.4 with his suit before trading down to a Sabre2, then back up to a Katana (the smallest one available).

-I made about 50 wingsuit flights with a Velo 75 before I decided I liked my bigger Velo better and traded the 75 for a Sabre2 97.

Ultimately, I don't think that adding a wingsuit to the equation, regardless of main, has anything to do with "needing" or shying away from the speed CYPRES. It's only got to do with the wingload of the main and how big a turn you are busting. I throw 360's 99% of the time now under all my mains (minus my tandem main) and I make my dytter holler at me everytime on approach. That has nothing to do with wingsuiting. The old blurb we had in the BirdMan First Flight course (and manual) that "a CYPRES may not activate at wingsuit speeds" is passe. I know for a fact that if a guy zoo's out at pulltime in a wingsuit he is going to be falling more than fast enough to get the unit to fire as he is flailing and trying to pull handles. I don't think we will ever see the day where a guy hums it down to CYPRES fire altitude in full flight without freaking the fuck out and reaching for handles. At least I hope we never see that.

Chuck

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Look at the names you dropped... Those are ultra current dudes who know their shit when it comes to canopies and wing suits. The average jumper probably is not as current, not loading as much, and not as experienced in wing suits. I think what the discussion was getting around to was that you should choose the gear that fits your mission. You are not going to go into urban combat with a life preserver on now are you (Some Navy dudes may feel more comfortable with one on, but you know what they say about men on boats for long periods of time...)? Those dudes you mentioned probably don't wear or use a cypres 1 or 2 if they are busting out large turns to final as the cypres 2 speed is probably the better choice.

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I am not sure how we got on the wingsuit tangent, but I can give you a lot of examples of quite-experienced wingsuit guys who regularly jump small crossbraces with their suits:

-Jay Moledzski either jumps a Velo 75 (maybe that 71 now) or his BASE rig with his wingsuit.

-Chris Martin made every single one of his 800+ wingsuit jumps under a Xaos loaded above 2.0

-Jari Kuosma routinely jumped a Velo 75 loaded around 2.4 with his suit before trading down to a Sabre2, then back up to a Katana (the smallest one available).

-I made about 50 wingsuit flights with a Velo 75 before I decided I liked my bigger Velo better and traded the 75 for a Sabre2 97.

Ultimately, I don't think that adding a wingsuit to the equation, regardless of main, has anything to do with "needing" or shying away from the speed CYPRES. It's only got to do with the wingload of the main and how big a turn you are busting. I throw 360's 99% of the time now under all my mains (minus my tandem main) and I make my dytter holler at me everytime on approach. That has nothing to do with wingsuiting. The old blurb we had in the BirdMan First Flight course (and manual) that "a CYPRES may not activate at wingsuit speeds" is passe. I know for a fact that if a guy zoo's out at pulltime in a wingsuit he is going to be falling more than fast enough to get the unit to fire as he is flailing and trying to pull handles. I don't think we will ever see the day where a guy hums it down to CYPRES fire altitude in full flight without freaking the fuck out and reaching for handles. At least I hope we never see that.

Chuck



Granted it wasn't with a wingsuit, I saw someone who claimed and had evidence of 500 jumps throw his main out at a decent altitude and ride a pilot chute in tow down to his cypres fire and smiled and joked about it when he got down. The guy is an idiot...but it has happened.


Cheers,
Travis

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I've been jumping it for a few months now and so have some other guys at my DZ. So far I only hear good reports. The swoop mode of Argus sounds better to me then the speed cypres2. With the Argus you can chose if you are on a normal "standard" skydive and have a fully functional AAD. Or you can chose to have it set for swooping and have a limited functional AAD. With a speed cypres, you don't have that choice without a repack.

BTW someone made a comment about not wanting a swoop AAD that goes into standby mode after a registerd normal opening, because of low cutaways. 1) AAD's are not ment for low cutaways (you have to build up speed, so IF you want this function a Speed Cypres is even a worst idea), RSL's are ment for that
2) Cypres tours with a video of a 4 way seperation went bad after opening, trying to make a statement against a standby mode. They forget you don't use swoop mode on a 4-way jump.
The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

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Ok, correction, I wouldn't use swoop mode on a 4 way jump. Because I don't swoop on a 4-way, I don't like to have people landing against each other (swoopers go downwind, the rest goes upwind) (I know you can swoop upwind, but personally I don't think the set of circumstances for 4 way are the same as needed for swoop(training) )
The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

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My Speed Cypres2 just arrived today along with my Viso. I only did one jump today & the viso logged my top speed under canopy at 72mph SAS under my JVX80 @ 2.0wl :S... I'm not sure how accurate the viso is, but I'm willing to bet it's pretty close. I definately feel a bit safer now.
Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

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..... trying to make a statement against a standby mode. They forget you don't use swoop mode on a 4-way jump.



Sorry,

you didn't get it. The reason for that Cypres save was NOT the collision, it was the reserve handle which was not found and pulled after cutaway. Nothing to do with 4 way.

It was a "cutaway failure" incident, which is a steady size in the statistics and was often enough reason for fatalities or Cypres fires in the last 15 years. Skydivers of all disciplines and all experience levels have been affected.


Best regards,

Kai

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Ok, sorry for that one then, but the presenter was almost bursting into tears, so it was hard to follow the guy.

So you are stating technology does not allow an AAD to be able to distiquish between a good opening or a malfunction?

BTW the scenerio as now described by you would more advocate RSL/Skyhook then an AAD in my book, but that's MHO
The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

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Ok, sorry for that one then, but the presenter was almost bursting into tears, so it was hard to follow the guy.



No worries.
I was the guy who you saw on the 14th of January 2006 at the Dutch Rigger and Instructor Symposium. I don't remember to have been "bursting to tears" ?

I state that it's not wise to switch off an AAD after canopy opening, no matter if this is done automatically or manually.

Too many fatalities [:/]

BTW the scenario "as now described" has never changed, it's still the same .

An RSL or Skyhook would indeed help. But not if you havn't got one - then you have at least 15 seconds time to wish you had one while searching that handle - or an AAD which is still on.



Regards,

Kai

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Ok, correction, I wouldn't use swoop mode on a 4 way jump. Because I don't swoop on a 4-way, I don't like to have people landing against each other (swoopers go downwind, the rest goes upwind)



this is one of the most asinine' ing (sp) statements I have ever seen in these forums.:|

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It's all about where to place quotes to twist a statement or leave out nuances. Also you arguments are very convincing. (let's not get into a flame war... rec.skydiving has enough)
The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

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The swoop mode of Argus sounds better to me then the speed cypres2. With the Argus you can chose if you are on a normal "standard" skydive and have a fully functional AAD. Or you can chose to have it set for swooping and have a limited functional AAD. With a speed cypres, you don't have that choice without a repack.



As I understand the philosophy Airtec is using in their Cypres Product is to make it as simple as possible in order to work on any Jump, with any Jumper just by turning it on. Any Settings in adition to the Dropzone Altitude Offset would mean there is the possibility of misuse or confusion. Thats why there is a Cypres for Students, Tandems, Experienced Jumpers and now for Swoopers. Even I think many Jumpers are clever enough to adjust an AAD before they Jump I believe others are not. (I read in the incedent Section some Jumpers were leaving the Aircraft without having a clue about their altidude, making their AAD'S fire.)
Therefore in my Opinion the Cypres is a more safe Product than the Argus for a lot of Skydivers.

Martin

Take care up there!

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As for the "knocked out" thing, 90% of AAD saves have been alti awareness issues so the "knocked out" scenario is statistically unlikely - unless it happens to you, of course.



Agreed, but my feelings are that at my experience level if I lose alt awareness I deserve to go in, i.e. it's my own fault. I could, however, be doing everything right and by some outside influence get knocked unconscious...that's why I keep a cypres in my rig. Well that and that my wife and daughter don't agree with me on the deserving to go in if I lose alt awareness.;)

edit for spelling



i don't have an aad but agree with you, the "getting knocked out in freefall" is what I would want one for. I think I am alone on this but I would want my aad to turn OFF when my main opens...

rm

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I don't think you're alone on that line of thought...I'm still chewing on the idea but I think I like it. Instead of 78mph or 96mph there would be no speed to worry about. I'm curious though how many instances there have been cypres saves (not just fires but honest to goodness saves) after the main has opened...
Miami

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