tommyh 0 #51 October 14, 2009 All of this talk about speed flying is great! I'm glad that there is somewhere on the interweb that I can read this stuff! speed-flying.com is deader than Michael Jackson! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #52 October 14, 2009 Quote I'm sure over time paragliders will want to go faster and their wings will be trimmed steeper etc. Skydivers/swoopers and paragliders will learn a lot from each other and different new disciplines will be suited to the different styles. I agree, I think a lot can be learned from each other. But I also would hesitate that the progression is going for smaller gliders. I have flown a lot in Switzerland and at times i wish I had an 8m due to the shear epic size of flights there, but here in the states, and for most new launches I have been pioneering, a 12m is perfect. I can be WAY closer to terrain and make WAY tighter turns than I could on a similar sized skydiving-originated canopy. Quote I anticipate many paragliders (down the track) taking up skydiving purely for swooping/speed initially. hmmm.... maybe. I have about 100 swoops on a Stiletto 120'^2 (loaded at ~1.6), and quit just because it got mundane. I was not great at it of course, I just figured I could get much more relative motion (it's ALL about relative motion) from concentrating on paragliding/speed flying. Quote Regulation of this new sport is also in its infancy but once it is well established I'm sure it will see an onslaught of new participants from paragliders, skydivers, skiers, snowboarders and any other adventure seeker. Agreed. Quote As far as lower harness attachment points go, I haven’t played with them much yet. You are correct I have always used parachuting harnesses. I have noticed that when I BASE jump and then immediatly do a speed flight in the same day, the sit/paraglide harness makes me feel NAKED. I feel at home in a parachute harness for sure, but I have learned to love the twitchy naked super responsive feel of a PG harness. I suggest you try it if you have the chance, it is really an awesome feeling. Quote It seems to me, the higher attachment points would be more suited to skiing? I am yet to have the pleasure of speed 'riding', Always foot launched, although I antcipate it is not so far away until I am hooked. Maybe, I have ski launched with both. The skis feel really heavy with a parachute harness on, at least doing high G maneuvers. I like the PG harness because it gives the parachute a LOT less moment arm as far as it pulling me or me controlling it. I mean that If the glider load is coming from your shoulders, while kiting, it is a LOT more likely to make you lose your balance than if it is at you waist. Quote I guess in the end there still ‘is’ a difference between ground launching and speed flying? The paragliding communities will have to show some leeway towards experienced skydivers. I would say there is a difference, yes. Ground launching skydive equipment seems to be a boredom activity for a lot of the skydivers here. The problem with that is there is a MASSIVE difference between ground launching a parachute and landing one from an airplane. and the most important issue here in the US, is the access to launch and landing sites. Speed flying is frowned upon by a lot of the PG community because of the skill level and accident rate of the majority of the individuals doing it. A paragliding training hill might be perfect for teaching paragliding, but absolutely dangerous for speed flying/ground launching. a person coming from paragliding will know this by looking at it usually, a skydiver may not. Quote For sure the basics of inflating and kiting and all the fundamentals are already established within the paragliding community and some sort of regulation is needed for the benefit of the long term progress of the sport. A paragliding licence should be required but a full progression through large docile paragliding wings that pose more of a threat to skydivers than faster wings of which they are familiar with, should not! 100% agree, I teach my students to first kite a speed glider, then kite a full size paraglider until they are competant. because it is far more difficult to kite a large glider but also builds the muscle memory much faster. then when they get back on the speed glider, they think, 'oh, ok, easy'. (because there is little easier than kiting a speed glider) Quote What seems really fast for paragliders may seem docile to some experienced skydivers. It is a problem for those that were initially doing this (bored skydivers) through the differences in the licensing systems, it would suck for skydivers to get the raw end of the stick for having the audacity of developing the sport in the first place. yes, mostly agree, but the problem is the weather and meteorological issues involved in ground launching compared to skydiving. in skydiving, the plane is going this fast, the wind up here is going this fast, turbulent here, wind is like this on the ground. in speed flying/ground launching/paragliding, weather is FAR more a factor, ESPECIALLY in the micro-meteorlogical conditions of flying 0-100' off the ground or cliff for sometimes the same altitude change as a skydive. there was a recent severe injury by a skydiver who bought a speed glider and took it to a paragliding hill here in colorado. it was a accident caused by location decision as well as meteorological. I am the poster child on needing to know EXACTLY what the weather is doing at all times. (edit, note that I do not teach the speed flying students to FLY full size paragliders, your right, there is not point and it is dangerous, but the skills learned from ground based glider control are very valuable with simple speed gliders and active flight control, especially in turbulent air) Quote We all have different needs but are essentially going through the same processes, it is quite a remarkable parallel indeed. Word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #53 October 15, 2009 Im just assuming you know the winds pretty well at that particular site, cause anything but a north wind and that bowl can seriously fuck you up. Say a complete collapse reinflate about 30 feet from impact there before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamT 0 #54 October 15, 2009 Its best there with a straight off shore, right out of the west. The lines to the right and the bowl are ok with a northwest wind, but not too much north. I preferred flying there in light wind anyway. The first and last of the three in the link were with just enough wind at the top to keep the canopy over head while walking forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #55 October 15, 2009 You know, with a purpose built speed glider (AKA bullet or Nano) you could do a LOT more in that little descent in your video. Probably even a flip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamT 0 #56 October 15, 2009 I like the speed of the decent though. Covering that 700 vertical feet in 15 secs or so is exhilarating. Im open to trying the speed wings of course but they aren't going to provide that fall line feeling of just screaming down the slope, at least it doesn't seem that way. Its like the different style of ski races, do you want a bunch of smaller turns at slower speeds or larger turns at faster speeds. Its the swooper in me i guess. I like working the risers and body position. With the mobility in the sitting harness and riser i can achieve some pretty flat glides with steep skydiving style wings. The way i see it if i want to stay aloft i grab the paraglider. Maybe my opinion will all change when i finally get to try some paragliding speed wings. From watching though they don't look like they provide exactly what i like. Im excited to find out though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blackdog 0 #57 October 15, 2009 Quote Im open to trying the speed wings of course but they aren't going to provide that fall line feeling of just screaming down the slope, at least it doesn't seem that way. they can but i prefer the control you would have with that spire on the rears. harness and toggles are all you have on the bullets for example check Mal out on a bullet vid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kami-kaze 0 #58 October 15, 2009 Yeah, that's a wicked vid ! All I say about this sport is : Damn This is the Dope ! That sensation of getting taking off ... I still fly my GLS and my Xfire and I reckon Stilleto is a fun canopy to fly. I like flying with rears. Haven't tried the PG manufacture's ones yet. They do have the price advantage so maybe people will buy them more. But if you have a wing already, why not use it. I use the seat harness with longer risers. Much better than shoulder ones. More comfortable and easier to weight shift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitesurfa 0 #59 October 20, 2009 Quote All of this talk about speed flying is great! I'm glad that there is somewhere on the interweb that I can read this stuff! speed-flying.com is deader than Michael Jackson! Speed-flying.com isn't dead - I keep the site updated when I can and if I have details to post... Don't know why nobody posts anything except For Sale and Wanted Ads ? But it gets loads of hits with people people checking out the Speed Wing guide etc... But also note, it is a sport that very few people are doing and then most of those only fly during the winter months when there is snow. Maybe you should post on the forum and get involved and spread the word its the place to be for the 2009/2010 season I don't check on here much as I spend more time on http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewforum.php?f=34 (their speed-flying forum) when not working on http://www.Speed-Flying.com or out flying and kitesurfing etc...http://www.speed-flying.com - No:1 for the worldwide Speed-Riding Community Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitesurfa 0 #60 October 20, 2009 QuoteI like the speed of the decent though. Covering that 700 vertical feet in 15 secs or so is exhilarating. Im open to trying the speed wings of course but they aren't going to provide that fall line feeling of just screaming down the slope, at least it doesn't seem that way. ... Im excited to find out though. check out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f3Evpa49ig on a 8m² ITV PilPit speed-gliderhttp://www.speed-flying.com - No:1 for the worldwide Speed-Riding Community Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couloirman 0 #61 October 20, 2009 really cool flying in that video but my god that singer is awful. I thought someone was skinning a cat or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #62 October 21, 2009 Awesome vid if you leave the sound off. some great flying and terrain in that! wow! just got back from a speed flying trip in Utah, not quite as good, but still awesome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommyh 0 #63 October 21, 2009 Sorry dude, didn't meen to be a dick, but I guess that's the only way you could interpret that... I'd love to post on s-f.com, but unfortunately I don't know jack about dick about speed flying! I've got a spankin' new bullet though, so hopefully I can become a real member of the community and I can make some kind of contribution someday. On a serious note, I am truely grateful that guys like you are passionate enough to put time and energy into spreading information and educating idiots like me. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LetsGoOutside 0 #64 October 21, 2009 QuoteA little taste of my preferred flying style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoPVpyNUNUc Nice. One of my favorite spots. I need to get back down there soon. As far as the rest of this discussion goes... to each their own! We very high winds (25+ mph on average) down 50° slopes here in Oregon out in the gorge. There are also some 30° slopes with about half the wind a bitter further away. It's best to take a different wing to each one. It's good to have both! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinhawxhurst 0 #65 November 9, 2009 WE all love what we love. This video is half Flying a stiletto 120 and half flying a ozone bullet 8m (72)ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A29SfHIikw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couloirman 0 #66 November 9, 2009 QuoteWE all love what we love. This video is half Flying a stiletto 120 and half flying a ozone bullet 8m (72)ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A29SfHIikw 8m bullet = 86 sq ft, not 72, but nice flying either way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdtrick 0 #67 October 19, 2011 Reviving an old thread to point out a new speed flying school in California, near Perris and Elsinore - http://speedflycalifornia.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #68 November 19, 2011 QuoteMy money (if I had any to spend which I currently don't) would go towards a GLX and not this Gin canopy. Gin's speedfly canopies are way better for this stuff. GLX glide ratio is crap in comparison.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyn 0 #69 November 19, 2011 Each wing has its pro and cons, and it depends on your terrain and how you like to interact with the terrain. If you fly a GLX like a PGing platform the glide ratio is low but I have achieved glide ratios on my 120 close to a nano 12m. At the end of the day knowing what your wing is capable of and how to utilize it is the most important as this will allow you to make safe decisions when attempting new terrain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #70 November 19, 2011 QuoteEach wing has its pro and cons, and it depends on your terrain and how you like to interact with the terrain. If you fly a GLX like a PGing platform the glide ratio is low but I have achieved glide ratios on my 120 close to a nano 12m. At the end of the day knowing what your wing is capable of and how to utilize it is the most important as this will allow you to make safe decisions when attempting new terrain. Agreed. If they could get washing machine to fly, someone would argue on behalf of its superior flight characteristics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #71 November 19, 2011 Quote Quote Each wing has its pro and cons, and it depends on your terrain and how you like to interact with the terrain. If you fly a GLX like a PGing platform the glide ratio is low but I have achieved glide ratios on my 120 close to a nano 12m. At the end of the day knowing what your wing is capable of and how to utilize it is the most important as this will allow you to make safe decisions when attempting new terrain. Agreed. If they could get washing machine to fly, someone would argue on behalf of its superior flight characteristics. well, they get lawn mowers to fly.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
