Thoughts on CPC 'eligibility'

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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but a $165 meet fee would definately keep me out of it, no question

Unless I'm mistaken the $165 includes your six jumps and part of this money is used for the winners prize money (even though I still question why amateurs are competiting for money).

The actual course material is not free nor is trying to find volunteer judges (you need to compensate them somehow like buying them pizza). So you're really only out the annual entrance fees as well as each competition fee.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I never said anything about not liking the CPC. I just offered some thoughts about the current system.

I guess I just get confused when you say the SYSTEM needs major changes when it's really minor tweaking that is likely only needed.

I'm not trying to be confrontational when I say this, but what are your alternatives? Personally I still think that if someone has the skill to consistently hit pro qualified courses, then why shouldn't they be allowed to compete on that venue. But one also needs to build experience somewhere else first and who says when someone is really ready to take a pro qualifier. Right now the system says "finish in the top ten at the CPC nationals". Is there better way?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

$165 is chump change man. Let's take the CPC for example with the $50 entry fee per competition. Do 5 of em and your paying 250. If you are balking because of $165, then you have never payed for coaching have you? The amount you will learn in a comp will be well worth $165. Saying that the entry fee is to much is like saying "I'm not going to compete because I know I can't win..." You have to pay the money to play the game.

[ccowden 0]

Well, I think the fact that there is no other way, is the problem. I agree with what you are saying. But with some people wanting to turn pro, some not, some competing for money, some not, it is creating a bit of a log jam. Yes, a little tweaking is probably what is needed.

[AndyMan 7]

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You have to pay the money to play the game.

My entire 4way team pays $80 for a daylong meet, including coaching.

$165 for one person is not reasonable, at least for me.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Spizzzarko 0]

$165 for one person is not reasonable, at least for me.




sucks to be you then...

[Spizzzarko 0]

Taken from canopy piloting.com about the same subject. It was written by Mr. Slaton:

"Thanks for the input guys. There will be many new changes for the CPC and PST for 2006. These new changes will be released with the schedule at the end of Feb. Also, there will be four PST Training Camps this season that will allow those top 9 amatuer guys to take their "Pro" qualifier test. Pilots will get one shot at the test. You guys should also check the rules on keeping your "Pro" status. Pilots must maintain enough performance points to stay pro or they must return to the amatuer league or retake the qualifier... "

That is all...

[ccowden 0]

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You have to pay the money to play the game.

My entire 4way team pays $80 for a daylong meet, including coaching.

How many jumps does your team get in that day?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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sucks to be you then...

It could be worse. At least we're not you.

But then again, I haven't had much to boast about these last three months in rainy BC with dwindling savings and still no job. So yes "it does suck to be me".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

At least I'm NOT in Canada!!!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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At least I'm NOT in Canada!!!

Smart ass ...

I miss the sunny skies of CO and while I know it's not full, I also miss that body of water in Wrongmont.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

I also miss that body of water

You mean the crater? hahahahaaa

[marks 0]

first off bre, re read my post. i dont have any problem with his canopy instuction ideas or knowledge.

i do have a problem with him trying to discredit me for two accedents that happened at skydive atlanta. peeps that sometimes jumped at the farm, and whom i have never given coaching to. for the simple fact they wouldnt listen. they crashed at skydive atlanta and now im the one "driving them into the dirt".. whatever dude.

the one person that I ever gave ANY canopy controll coaching to that got hurt was jerry, he asked 3 peeps , to my knowledge, about his canopy choiice, me, Ian, and hans. and all 3 of us gave the ok. and now he wants to come here and try and discredit me? who has got the personall vandetta. this all started because i recieved a p.m. from ian asking me what i was going to do for this season, and i said stay in the cpc. then all the name calling began, and pointing fingers and caslling me a sandbagger and then trying to discredit my person and my name.,!!!

dont for a second think that i will lie down and take that..

here is the link to the guy i was coachings incedent. read it and form your own opinion. he is a true, honest, and awesome person, thats why I gave him my full attention on canopy controll, as did hans.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1656576;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Ian, i have no idea what has you trying to discredit me for this incedent. I really dont. that is cheap and a low blow. remember, you gave the ok for this canopy also. and he WAS NOT out of his leuge on it. you know that.

[raymod2 1]

Where did this $165 figure come from? In the Illinois district we paid $25 per meet and the jump tickets were $10. For comparison the 4-way NSL meets cost $80 per team ($20 per person) for 6 jumps plus coaching and the jump tickets were the standard price for full altitude.

@Spizzzarko: Please don't put someone down because they can't afford something. What is chump change to you may be a lot of money to someone else.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Well we are not talking 4 way are we? RW coaches are a dime a dozen so the price for coaching is not astronomical. $165 comes from the entry fee into the Florida canopy piloting league. The amount of experience gained from these swoop meets far outweights the price of the competition. So by me telling him that it sucks to be him, I was refering to the fact that he has basicly told everyone that he wants to swoop in a competition, but he doesn't want to pay for it. I'm not financially loaded myself, but I have made my decision on what I want to spend my money on, as I feel the value of these events far outweights the cost. This is an expensive sport, and I would think that most of you would realize this by now.

[ccowden 0]

Then to compare apples to apples, you actually pay $20 plus +/- $120 for jumps, so the cost of the comp is more like $140. Not too far off from that $165.

[chayes12 0]

$165 is the cost for a 6 jump meet including jumps.
This cost does vary a little depending on jumps prices.
It is the cost of 6 hop and pops at $15=$90
plus a $75 registration. $165
So basically you are paying $75 to be judged and have a team of people working for you to set up courses and judge and video your swoops and give you your scores at the end of the day. Actually that is a good deal to swoop with your peers in a competition environment.
Currently some DZ are charging as much as $17 for 5000 ft hop and pops, but I have talked with them and secured us $15 slot prices for our comps here.
And yes it is difficult to find, train and keep a good team of judges that will stay with us for the whole season and the $75 comp registration money from each competitor goes to their expenses first. In some cases our judges, who have real jobs, will be taking time off work to travel to come and do these events for us. They require gas money, hotel and food for the event. It is very very very difficult to find good help and then expect them to pay for themself. This year we have a dedicated team of judges including a video person and a still photographer that will be attending all of these events. These are the most important people in the event and their availability and willingness to travel determines the event dates and locations. So we pay their expenses and some extra compensation for their time and anything left over from the $75 goes directly to prize money. It cost about $350-400 per comp for a good team of judges that has to travel and take time off of work. So it takes a minimum of 5 competitors at $75 registration just to pay for them to show up.
My time has always been donated.

[marks 0]

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My time has always been donated.

my prize money will be donated,"asuming i win some" as long as we can acheive some sort of goal, as in cpc finals or somthing. put a handicap on me, i dont care. 5 footers are fun. give me a reason to compete, and i will be there.

[AndyMan 7]

Sorry, I didn't realise that included jumps. $75 as "meet fee" is a lot more reasonable.

In 4way, the NSL breaks out meet fees ($80ish), and then has jumpers pay their own slots. I was assuming this was similar.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DrewGPM 0]

Maybe it's just me, but reading this thread worries me. Some of you guys seem to think that everyone who attends the CPC meets is doing so as part of a grand plan to go pro. That is a HUGE mistake, IMHO.


There are a lot of fun jumpers who are great canopy pilots, but have no idea whether they want to go pro yet because they have not competed before. Andyman is one of those guys. He's a damn good swooper, but does he love it enough to consider a pro card? Hopefully we'll find out during the 2006 season.

Not every canopy pilot wants to be on the PST. Just like not every belly flyer wants to be on Airspeed and not every freeflyer wants to compete at Nationals.

The NSL found a great system to allow hard core guys and weekend fun team compete in 4-way. Many of the people who started out on one of those fun team are now training on serious teams.

I hope the CPC will not only offer a plan for you hard core pilots, but also provide a place for guys like Andyman to test the waters.

For the guys that want to use the CPC to earn a pro card, then you should be in Colorado at the championships. When you finish in the top 10, either go get that pro card or come back the district and let the local fun jumpers take shot at beating your ass.

Some of the best pilots didn't compete this year. Odds are that the next great star in canopy piloting hasn't competed at all yet.

[Widgeon 0]

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my prize money will be donated

If you're really prepared to do that, and money isn't an issue, why don't you run the qualifier course in attempt to go pro? You'd rather throw the money on entry fees/local travel(which will still add up) away completely to compete 'down' instead of stepping up? You're not really making sense to me yet. You say on one hand, "give me my pro card I'm qualified....Hand it to me, I'll gladly take it," and on the other then you want to stay on the CPC for another year. Exactly what is it you want changed and what is it you want done about it. If you spell it out, you might avoid all the flaming and criticism. Just a thought.

[marks 0]

I want the ability to compete locally. you started alot of this conversation at the end of last season. it went into classes and what not.. and not just for money or bragg rights. but for the ability to achieve a season long goal.

what im saying, is have top 10 cpc pilots from last year able to qualify for there pro card if they wish.

if not then they can go back into the cpc with 5 footers as a handicap. if they still make it to finals and still get top 10, then the pro card is mandatory for this circuit, or untill there is enough for another circuit.

plain and simple. it isnt confusing at all..

you wanted categories, this is the best alternative.

it has been spelled out more than once.

[Widgeon 0]

NO. BULLSHIT. I wanted a nine cell class so I could have competed where I was comfortable at the time. You were the one that stressed so importantly that rules couldn't be changed to allow something like that. You've proposed(with some specialized guidlines however) basically the same thing I asked for, except the class that will be introduced per your description will be for the top pilots, not the new ones. My proposal made competition a possibility for every high performance pilot that could meet the minimum quota for participation. Isn't that what the CPC was supposed to be about? Taking competitive swooping at a regional level to a more accessable arena and education about do's and dont's.

This is about creating a vehicle for busy people like you, who can't or don't want to commit to becoming a pro pilot can stick around and compete on an organized circuit with all that it entails.

That is not what I was asking for last season.

[marks 0]

well. look at it this way, the way the rules are now, i would compete hand in hand with the same gates as you. you want that?

or would you rather have me handicapped, on 5 footers, then also having % scoring system. it levels the feild, trust me.

[raymod2 1]

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Currently some DZ are charging as much as $17 for 5000 ft hop and pops

My dropzone charges $7 for a hop and pop out of the Cessna 182 and $10 out of the PAC 750. Skydive Chicago charges $10 out of the Otter(s). I don't remember what Chicagoland charges but Drew negotiated $10 per jump for the meet. It sounds like some dropzones are ripping people off.