bergh 0 #51 November 18, 2005 I don't mean to flog a dead horse but is my sketch correct ? Is this what people tried to explain ? The circle being the wright. Top triangle being canopy and bottom being hareness._______________________________________ You are unique, just like everybody else ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #52 November 18, 2005 If you are trying to illustrate a jumper leaning forward and back in a standard skydiving harness, your drawing is correct. Actually it does a good job of illustrating how the single point attachment will dampen out any weight shift forward or back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dlee 0 #53 November 18, 2005 hang from the ceiling and lean one way or the other, you most certianly will change the angle to the floor. if you don't believe it go to a kids playground and mess about on the swing set. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirenoremac 0 #54 November 18, 2005 But will the ceiling change it's angle? This is very simple physics people... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #55 November 20, 2005 Dude, the guy who literally wrote the book on canopy flight and aerodynamics said: " Your weight is balanced on the confluence wrap on your risers. Leaning forward or back will not alter the center of gravity of the parachute at all." Do you disagree? Why? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #56 November 21, 2005 Quotehang from the ceiling and lean one way or the other, you most certianly will change the angle to the floor. if you don't believe it go to a kids playground and mess about on the swing set. The angle of what to the floor? You will never change the angle between the rope and the floor.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #57 November 21, 2005 QuoteYou will never change the angle between the rope and the floor. I think what people are missing is that you can enact changes in the examples that some have set forth. The problem that they are not seeing or recognizing is that these changes are both A) not sustainable and B) come along with opposite reaction once the change has run it's course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #58 November 21, 2005 who gives a fuck? really - the question has been answered, why continue to beat this up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #59 November 21, 2005 Quotewho gives a fuck? really - the question has been answered, why continue to beat this up? I don't know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfnren 0 #60 November 30, 2005 I disagree, Brian germain may have wrote the book but that doesn't mean he's right 100%. A ceiling is attacheched to the ground, why can't the canopy pivot on the air it rides on? ever swing on a set that is loose? the momentum from swinging changes the angle of the frame. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #61 November 30, 2005 ^ why is this thread back? ghey :| dude - dont come on to the boards and make yourself look stupid. brian germain happens to know a thing or two about what he's talking about. like enough to write a book.... and have it published ..... and have oh, i dont know, thousands of skydivers buy it. you have like 200+ jumps and what degree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #62 November 30, 2005 Quote ^ why is this thread back? ghey :| seconded... come on people the question was answered... deal with it NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #63 November 30, 2005 Sorry dude, Try swinging a swing wtihout holding onto the chains. For stability, you can hold onto the seat. Let me know how far you get. You can not change your center of gravity, hence you can not move a swing (or a canopy) by only leaning forward. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nullified 0 #64 December 1, 2005 Quote^ why is this thread back? ghey :| Why do you care so much? When I'm tired of a thread, I simply choose to not open it anymore. It's really easy, even easier than opening it is. Quotedude - dont come on to the boards and make yourself look stupid. brian germain happens to know a thing or two about what he's talking about. like enough to write a book.... and have it published ..... and have oh, i dont know, thousands of skydivers buy it. you have like 200+ jumps and what degree? Why are you putting so much effort in to trying to make someone look foolish? What's your degree? If you can offer something constructive, I'm sure that everyone's listening. Anyone can post sarcasm. Stay safe. If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #65 December 1, 2005 QuoteWhy are you putting so much effort in to trying to make someone look foolish? really.!! agreed. Quote What's your degree? If you can offer something constructive, I'm sure that everyone's listening. Anyone can post sarcasm. nobody is the end all say all, we are all still learning. brian puts things into words better than most, but does he actually "pull strings" better than most? nobody "wrote" the bible on swooping, or canopy control, so your opinions and views count more than you think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #66 December 1, 2005 Quote You can not change your center of gravity, hence you can not move a swing (or a canopy) by only leaning forward. Edited for accuracy: You can not change your center of gravity while suspended, hence you can not move a swing (or a canopy) by only leaning forward. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chachi 0 #67 December 1, 2005 QuoteWhy are you putting so much effort in to trying to make someone look foolish? What's your degree? If you can offer something constructive, I'm sure that everyone's listening. Anyone can post sarcasm. it was not my intention to make him look stupid when i wrote the post. honestly my point was that people need to listen more and talk less. he boldly made statements about a well educated / informed individual and i made just as bold of a statement back. oh, and FYI pot - kettle - black Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #68 December 2, 2005 I'm not trying to explain anything about swooping here, this is just my engineer mind (VMI Class of 98, BS in Mechanical Engineering, since we're asking for credentials) going to work. I promise I won't try to work in something about the 45 degree rule. Leaning forwards and backwards on a swing causes the swing to move because of your displacement of mass outside of the vertical line of tension in the ropes. This is easier to imagine as a person standing on the swing and holding on with their hands. There is no torque transmitted along the lines. A canopy is the same as a swingset (not lines attached to the ceiling of your house) because you are held up by the sum of the forces of lift on your canopy (the Normal force) in the model of a pendulum. There is nothing keeping the canopy from rotating. Each chain link of the swingset can be seen as a three-ring attachment. The three ring attachment can be seen as where, on the swing, you have your hands when you lean forwards or backwards. Yes, if you quickly lean against your chest strap, you cause the canopy to rotate until you stop moving, then it swings back into equlibrium and the line of tension above the three-ring is again perpendicular to the plane on which you were originally travelling and in line with your center of mass. This takes all of a second, maybe(?), and is nowhere near the amount of mass displacement you can have leaving forward while standing on a swingset. So, if you're only leaning forward or backwards (not touching your rears), you're no longer doing anything, you're just leaning."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nullified 0 #69 December 2, 2005 Quotehonestly my point was that people need to listen more and talk less. I disagree. Clearly, this person has a different opinion, be it right or wrong. Regardless, he has every right to say so. If you or anyone else disagree with his opinion, taking some time and trying to explain it in a way that he will understand just might go a long way. Insults and sarcasm are damaging, and at best useless. If you can't do a better job of explaining the situation, and can only offer negative energy, then you might consider your own words..."...people need to listen more and talk less." Quotehe boldly made statements about a well educated / informed individual and i made just as bold of a statement back. What did you accomplish? Do you think that you helped this individual understand the situation any better? Quoteoh, and FYI pot - kettle - black If it makes you feel better. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frost 1 #70 December 2, 2005 Why are you people still talking about it? Too much talk. Tell you what... the weekend is almost here... Make a jump, dump and start swinging in the harness like a retarded kid on a swing. See what happens to the ceiling, er.. i mean your canopy. THEN tell us what happenedSoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #71 December 2, 2005 Dude, I just tried this with my ceiling. It fucking caved in..."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nullified 0 #72 December 2, 2005 QuoteDude, I just tried this with my ceiling. It fucking caved in... Tim Allen offers a really excellent course in which he discusses why you shouldn't try that, and how to approach it if you feel that you really must. If he isn't in your area, Bob Villa also offers an excellent course, though his is a bit more technical and difficult for the layman to follow. Between the two, you shouldn't have any trouble finding a course in your area within the near future. Good luck. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chachi 0 #73 December 2, 2005 wow, ok - you're right, i'm wrong feel better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nullified 0 #74 December 3, 2005 Quotewow, ok - you're right, i'm wrong feel better? It's not an issue of wrong or right, or of anyone feeling better. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #75 December 3, 2005 this thread has gotten pointless, leaning forward or leaning backward doesn't do a damn thing for you if you cant hit the gates. if it does anything it is so minuscule that it doesn't really matter anyway. with that said, if you attached your risers to your hips, then you might be on to something, but it is only an aerodynamic advantage, not center of gravity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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AndyMan 7 #66 December 1, 2005 Quote You can not change your center of gravity, hence you can not move a swing (or a canopy) by only leaning forward. Edited for accuracy: You can not change your center of gravity while suspended, hence you can not move a swing (or a canopy) by only leaning forward. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #67 December 1, 2005 QuoteWhy are you putting so much effort in to trying to make someone look foolish? What's your degree? If you can offer something constructive, I'm sure that everyone's listening. Anyone can post sarcasm. it was not my intention to make him look stupid when i wrote the post. honestly my point was that people need to listen more and talk less. he boldly made statements about a well educated / informed individual and i made just as bold of a statement back. oh, and FYI pot - kettle - black Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #68 December 2, 2005 I'm not trying to explain anything about swooping here, this is just my engineer mind (VMI Class of 98, BS in Mechanical Engineering, since we're asking for credentials) going to work. I promise I won't try to work in something about the 45 degree rule. Leaning forwards and backwards on a swing causes the swing to move because of your displacement of mass outside of the vertical line of tension in the ropes. This is easier to imagine as a person standing on the swing and holding on with their hands. There is no torque transmitted along the lines. A canopy is the same as a swingset (not lines attached to the ceiling of your house) because you are held up by the sum of the forces of lift on your canopy (the Normal force) in the model of a pendulum. There is nothing keeping the canopy from rotating. Each chain link of the swingset can be seen as a three-ring attachment. The three ring attachment can be seen as where, on the swing, you have your hands when you lean forwards or backwards. Yes, if you quickly lean against your chest strap, you cause the canopy to rotate until you stop moving, then it swings back into equlibrium and the line of tension above the three-ring is again perpendicular to the plane on which you were originally travelling and in line with your center of mass. This takes all of a second, maybe(?), and is nowhere near the amount of mass displacement you can have leaving forward while standing on a swingset. So, if you're only leaning forward or backwards (not touching your rears), you're no longer doing anything, you're just leaning."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nullified 0 #69 December 2, 2005 Quotehonestly my point was that people need to listen more and talk less. I disagree. Clearly, this person has a different opinion, be it right or wrong. Regardless, he has every right to say so. If you or anyone else disagree with his opinion, taking some time and trying to explain it in a way that he will understand just might go a long way. Insults and sarcasm are damaging, and at best useless. If you can't do a better job of explaining the situation, and can only offer negative energy, then you might consider your own words..."...people need to listen more and talk less." Quotehe boldly made statements about a well educated / informed individual and i made just as bold of a statement back. What did you accomplish? Do you think that you helped this individual understand the situation any better? Quoteoh, and FYI pot - kettle - black If it makes you feel better. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #70 December 2, 2005 Why are you people still talking about it? Too much talk. Tell you what... the weekend is almost here... Make a jump, dump and start swinging in the harness like a retarded kid on a swing. See what happens to the ceiling, er.. i mean your canopy. THEN tell us what happenedSoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #71 December 2, 2005 Dude, I just tried this with my ceiling. It fucking caved in..."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nullified 0 #72 December 2, 2005 QuoteDude, I just tried this with my ceiling. It fucking caved in... Tim Allen offers a really excellent course in which he discusses why you shouldn't try that, and how to approach it if you feel that you really must. If he isn't in your area, Bob Villa also offers an excellent course, though his is a bit more technical and difficult for the layman to follow. Between the two, you shouldn't have any trouble finding a course in your area within the near future. Good luck. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #73 December 2, 2005 wow, ok - you're right, i'm wrong feel better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nullified 0 #74 December 3, 2005 Quotewow, ok - you're right, i'm wrong feel better? It's not an issue of wrong or right, or of anyone feeling better. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #75 December 3, 2005 this thread has gotten pointless, leaning forward or leaning backward doesn't do a damn thing for you if you cant hit the gates. if it does anything it is so minuscule that it doesn't really matter anyway. with that said, if you attached your risers to your hips, then you might be on to something, but it is only an aerodynamic advantage, not center of gravity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
