Dominik 0 #1 October 13, 2005 I am jumping a Crossfire 129 with a Wingload of 1.4 Now I would be intrested if anyone has experiences with swooping a Crossfire especially concerning the heavy frontriser pressure (At the moment I am doing Harness Turns) and techniques - I have seen JC in Austria (MTV World Cup) only using the A Lines (I think) and I thought this may be an alternative for using the Fronts on a Crossfire because the effect is quite good but the pressure is less - Whats your opinion on this? Dominik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #2 October 13, 2005 The front riser pressure on a crossfire isnt all that heavy, however, if you are having trouble getting output from your input, lean in the harness more. Really crank into the turn/dive. One thing that can help is going into partial breaks until directly before you want to initiate the dive. This decreases the load factor on the wing, thus reducing the riser pressure. Leaning forward in the harness while using the harness to turn will also help the canopy to dive a bit more agressively. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominik 0 #3 October 13, 2005 I do not know what kind of Crossfire you have been jumping but mine has a lot of pressure (I am not the only one who thinks that) - I am always flying into nearly full brakes to my Setup point and then initiate the turn but does not help with the pressure - The Crossfire has a new line set from Icarus ... maybe it has something to do with it ... I will try to play more with the Harness ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanopyPiloting 0 #4 October 13, 2005 QuoteI do not know what kind of Crossfire you have been jumping but mine has a lot of pressure (I am not the only one who thinks that) - I am always flying into nearly full brakes to my Setup point and then initiate the turn but does not help with the pressure - The Crossfire has a new line set from Icarus ... maybe it has something to do with it ... I will try to play more with the Harness ... Was your Crossfire made by Icarus in "Spain" or Icarus/Daedalus in "New Zealand"? Send me a PM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #5 October 13, 2005 QuoteThe front riser pressure on a crossfire isnt all that heavy, however, if you are having trouble getting output from your input, lean in the harness more. Really crank into the turn/dive. One thing that can help is going into partial breaks until directly before you want to initiate the dive. This decreases the load factor on the wing, thus reducing the riser pressure. Leaning forward in the harness while using the harness to turn will also help the canopy to dive a bit more agressively. front riser pressure on some of the crossfires, im thinking they were the ones just "post" recall made in spain, had high front riser pressure. my old crossfire 99 had so much front riser pressure, it flew like a vx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #6 October 14, 2005 The riser pressure is pretty heavy on mine as well. Others have jumped my canopy and agreed. It takes some getting used to, but there are a few things you can do to try to deal with it. Turning from brakes is one way to get the pressure down for sure, but might be a little less consistent. Experiment with different riser lengths and you may find you've got a little extra 'horsepower' if you get to reach up an extra few inches. I changed from 20" risers to 23s and it made all the difference in the world. Flying in full flight to my initiation point everytime made my swoops alot more consistent too. Just stick it out for awhile and you'll settle into something that works for you. If you still don't like it, you can always use just the harness, IF you can figure that out......but that's the fun part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #7 October 14, 2005 Quote Leaning forward in the harness while using the harness to turn will also help the canopy to dive a bit more agressively. I've seen this posted a few times and wonderd about how this works. If this concept of inputs worked, I should feel my canopy increase in speed and dive more, if while in full flight I just pressed forward into my chest strap and leaned forward as hard as I could. I've tried it, alot, and I cannot feel any difference except this a very uncomfortable way to fly around. Not knocking you at all, but please eloborate a little more on this and anyone else who might be using this technique. I just have a hard time understanding how if we are only connected to our canopies at the two lateral points, how would pivoting weight beneath that point do anything to dive the canopy any harder? I'm not sure, but this sounds to me like all that is going on is you're just presenting less of your surface area to the relative wind you experience in a dive. Wouldn't just drawing your legs up and staying a little smaller under your canopy throughout your maneauver accomplish the same thing? Maybe at my wingloading (1.7)the difference is too small to notice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #8 October 14, 2005 QuoteQuote Leaning forward in the harness while using the harness to turn will also help the canopy to dive a bit more agressively. I've seen this posted a few times and wonderd about how this works. If this concept of inputs worked, I should feel my canopy increase in speed and dive more, if while in full flight I just pressed forward into my chest strap and leaned forward as hard as I could. I've tried it, alot, and I cannot feel any difference except this a very uncomfortable way to fly around. Not knocking you at all, but please eloborate a little more on this and anyone else who might be using this technique. I just have a hard time understanding how if we are only connected to our canopies at the two lateral points, how would pivoting weight beneath that point do anything to dive the canopy any harder? I'm not sure, but this sounds to me like all that is going on is you're just presenting less of your surface area to the relative wind you experience in a dive. Wouldn't just drawing your legs up and staying a little smaller under your canopy throughout your maneauver accomplish the same thing? Maybe at my wingloading (1.7)the difference is too small to notice. I absolutely see your point. I felt the same way when I found out about this technique. And in theory...you are correct. Since there is only one attachment point on each side of the body, you would simply pivot under the risers/three rings...however... Think about what happens if you were to lean backwards in a swingset...you would tilt backwards. If you leaned forwards, you would begin to tilt forward. Its the leaning that moves the swing back and forth. Our three rings are not perfectly fluidly moving as a pivot point, they stick a little and are very close to the front of our harnesses. So when we lean forward or back, it has a small effect on the way our weight is positioned under it. We lean forward, the three rings and risers move with us, and so does the canopy (slightly). Essentially, our bodies are "pulling" the canopy further down than if we were leaned back. We are giving the canopy more forward energy by leaning forward just as we would be leaning forward while we are swinging in a swing. Confusing, yes. Best way to understand, try it. Lean forward with all you got. Extend your legs downward and back as well as your arms. This is a dynamic thing. You can't just lean forward and expect the canopy to fly different. Its when you are coming out of your dive that this forward energy will help you. This will not only let you try this up high, but it will reduce your parasitic drag that your body creates. Kind of hard to grasp, but it does help, especially on smaller, heavier loaded canopies. You jump a crossfire 119 at 1.7 so you are pretty heavy loaded yourself. Try it out. Thanks for the question, i didn't feel like you were dissing me. No worries. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #9 October 14, 2005 I can see where you're coming from on this, but lets look at it from another perspective. Lean forward in a stationary swing, obviously you tilt forward; lean back and we tilt backwards. When the swing is in motion, which way do we lean to go forward? By leaning back and extending our legs, we're putting as much weight as we have available behind the pivot point to drive it forward and down with more effect. Leaning forward as soon as the swing started down would kill some of the energy we have going, right? Wouldn't a coordinated movement under a canopy accomplish a similar effect? Think about it, if you could hold something back throughout your maneuver and were able to 'release' more energy into your final roll out, you'd have more power to work with in your swoop. I'm not saying the same technique for a peice of playground equipment can be used in swooping, but the principle and the idea I think could be utilized if you could nail down a way to do it. It seems to me that this could be an angle of attack issue. I think everyone that uses rears has experienced this to some degree by changing direction at the right time while keeping up the mometum. I still think the forward lean just gives you a more compact profile under the canopy. This is some Brian Germain shit here but just the conclusions I've drawn through my experimenting with it. If it works for you, or even if you think it does, stick with it because I can't argue with results. Definitely something to think about though, because I could always use something to get more out of what I've got.....thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #10 October 18, 2005 If it is a Crossfire 1 they have a bit more riser pressure than a Crossfire 2. Going into brakes does help with getting rid of some of the pressure. Check out www.IcarusCanopies.aero for an explanation of some of the differences between the two. Or get going on those pull-ups!! Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #11 October 18, 2005 YEah johnny, or maybe it is just the 129 that is wierd, I noticed that the 149 had lighter pressure and I have heard that the 119 has lighter pressure, maybe the 129 is a "butcher job" of a canopy like the 103 Velo ;) I would be interested in getting another 149 to gauge the difference again, will you be able to get me another demo? Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 October 18, 2005 QuoteThe front riser pressure on a crossfire isnt all that heavy, It can be if you have one on the MOD list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #13 October 20, 2005 Just to clarify...It looks like one set of people are talking about original Crossfires, and one set are talking about Crossfire 2s...Both my Crossfire 2s have had fantastically low front riser pressure. ([email protected], [email protected])--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #14 October 20, 2005 Same here.. I loaded mine at 2.0 and the front riser pressure was beautiful.. I'm thinking about going back to the xf2.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #15 October 20, 2005 QuoteJust to clarify...It looks like one set of people are talking about original Crossfires, and one set are talking about Crossfire 2s...Both my Crossfire 2s have had fantastically low front riser pressure. ([email protected], [email protected]) I have a crossfire2 129 loaded at 1.6ish and the front riser pressure is abominable... cuts open my hands everytime...thats why I am moving to ledges instead of dive loops, I noticed the 149 had lighter riser pressure at about 1.4... thats why I am wondering if the 129 is a bad size for the Xfire2 Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #16 October 20, 2005 What type of canopy were you jumping before you went to the crossfire? I have a friend with a 129 and he says its fine. You all should go crossbraced...then talk about riser pressure. THe fx's and vx's get so heavy that most of a carving turn onto final is used with harness. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #17 October 20, 2005 QuoteWhat type of canopy were you jumping before you went to the crossfire? I have a friend with a 129 and he says its fine. You all should go crossbraced...then talk about riser pressure. THe fx's and vx's get so heavy that most of a carving turn onto final is used with harness. hehe, my buddy just went to a Velo from this canopy and says the riser pressure is lighter ;) Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #18 October 20, 2005 One of the AFF instructors at my DZ did a jump on my xf1 119 loaded up just a little more than me and said the risers were heavier than his VX89... Guess there's even more to look forward to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #19 October 21, 2005 QuoteI'm thinking about going back to the xf2.. Why? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to get into it. I'm just curious. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 October 21, 2005 QuoteWhy? Can't really answer that yet. I had so much time under that canopy it was like a piece of me. Starting over under a new wing is just a bit of a pain in the ass. The xf2 was just an awesome, fast, responsive canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #21 October 21, 2005 I had noticed that you are currently flying an FX, which I have alot of time under. If you are unhappy with some of it's characteristics, maybe I can help. Let me know. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flow 1 #22 October 21, 2005 Quote hehe, my buddy just went to a Velo from this canopy and says the riser pressure is lighter ;) I went to Velocity from Crossfire and on full glide Velo definitely has higher riser pressure, but it probably benefits a bit more from the braked approach. I never thought Crossfire1 to have too high riser pressure. It was higher than on some other canopies, but definitely not as high as on xbraced canopies I've jumped. I actually liked Xfire1 more than Xfire2, Xfire2 had too light riserpressure for my tastes (I don't like canopies to have that light riserpressure). Then again I've only jumped xfire1&2 119 and (1)109 so can't really comment about 129. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #23 October 21, 2005 QuoteQuote hehe, my buddy just went to a Velo from this canopy and says the riser pressure is lighter ;) I went to Velocity from Crossfire and on full glide Velo definitely has higher riser pressure, but it probably benefits a bit more from the braked approach. I never thought Crossfire to have too high riser pressure. It was higher than on some other canopies, but definitely not as high as on xbraced canopies I've jumped. Then again I've only jumped xfire(1/2)119 and (1)109 so can't really comment about 129. Yeah I have flown the 149 as well, and noticed it was lighter on the 149 as well, I am really starting to think this canopy has problems... oh well Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #24 October 22, 2005 QuoteThere are a very select few of us in the Xbraced community who still fly this canopy. Does that have anything to do with the openings? ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #25 October 22, 2005 I've jumped a CF 2 99 and 3 CF2 89, I still currently own and fly one. They all had beautifully light riser-pressure and that was a reason for me to buy one. But I also think that Velos have light riser-pressure, so that might depend on how you fly and feel it. Anyway, I can do a 360 on risers only without problems. If I add body input and some advanced technique, (like slowing down the rotation) I can make it dive forever... If you can't do that with yours I would contact the manufacturer and get a new line-set. High riser-pressure sucks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
