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FAC

New FAI Distance Record in Colorado

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I expect people to stand up almost every landing
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Yes, I expect people to stand up almost every landing


This is about standing up the landing
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Require a stand up landing for the run to count***
I don't see stand up landings as holding the sport back,


stand up your landings, "
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The best canopy pilots stand up the landing.





and so on , and so on...
This discussion is about the new world record distance swooping...This year ,I´ve been to quiet a few competitions,including 2 world cups,never saw anybody getting hurt on the distance runs(thanks to good sliding techniques...).I agree completly with Gary ´s comments:***Seeing pro swoopers doing a downwind controlled slide into land DOES set a good example to lesser experienced jumpers. It shows them that you can safely land downwind and dust your self off rather than making that too low turn into wind and killing yourself.

I have seen more injuries with people trying to stand up than sliding in. ***

Why don´t you start a new thread to promote you stand up techniques???Just don´t tell them you were jumping a VX-60 in your days...
wuk??

http://www.brunobrokken.com

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Derek has a lot of bitterness for the sport. I think its jealosy really. He's getting defensive because he's not jumping hte smallest highest performance canopy in colorado now. If he was still jumping and didn't compete, and this thread wasn't around, he would probably not even bring up the fact of not standing up landings as his reason for not competing. He would find another excuse.


Cheers,
Travis

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Not standing up the landings sets a bad example. Not maybe or can set a bad example. It does.



Derek, swooping sets a bad example. Busting out a 540 sets a bad example. Flaring with rear risers sets a bad example. Landing close to obstacles (bodies of water, wind blades, crowds) sets a bad example. Jumping tiny shit sets a bad example. We would highly discourage any new jumper from doing any of these things. Jumping out of airplanes sets a bad example, so what the fuck is the big deal? We live in a do as I say not as I do world.

Several posts up someone asked you why we don't make classic accuracy competitors stand up their landings. You never came up with a good reason. Got one yet? On the other hand, you have been given good reaons for why swoopers sometimes don't stand their landings up - to go further and to land safer. Both are irrefutable.

Damn dude - your posts are so green it's almost like your shooting for a moderator spot again. [:/]

Canuck

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Well put!!!
Sheesh Derek give it a rest dude[:/]. you say stand up stand up stand up ... how you did it every time (or whatever) : then someone says come swoop and you say -no way :o- " have you seen what a beating those guys take". Thats just hilarious. :D
Your argument to set a good example should have you competing and standing up those landings so as to not taking that pounding. Go show 'em how it's done dude. ;) - Do a trick - A BIG ONE !

I almost forgot --- CONGRATS JAY !!!!!! AWESOME STUFF!!!B|
People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

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Any CPC competitor who is interested in pictures please email me at [email protected]. one of our video fliers took many (like 400) pictures on one of his bad ass digital still cameras. he made me a dvd movie of the pics a couple days ago. i will try to burn copies or have him make some more if anyone is interested. they are sequential stills, so some really good pictures of splashdowns, distance runs, etc. where you're in several pictures in a row. Stu if you see this get back to me on that container. probably be sending you the cash for that as soon as i hear from you.



Say what you mean. Do what you say.

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VX 60 of yours (I know you sold it, in fact it was in town competing against us this week and it sure was NOT a very effective wing



Since you bring it up, I remember a competetion in CO where the max distance was 2 cones. I was doing a fun jump and swooped the course right after the competetion was over, going 4 cones..........
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok ok boys, it was the shitty piloting but I have plenty of excuses ;) My 5 jumps max/weekend cannot compete with the 20+ jumps/weekend made AT mile-hi over the pond.

Anyway, I'm not going to say much more, I'll just show up next year and we'll see what happens.

I like guys in capris. Very cute :)

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

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(not directed at just you)

Wow! You guys getting down on Derek:o All he stated was his option. I guess if you state your option and you all don't agree with him, you get to "have at him."

Lighten up. Swooping is so new to the sport. I expect to see changes happening as this part of our sport grows.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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Does the video on the linked page below of Hooknswoop screaming in under a VX-60 at 3.1:1 qualify?



You mean the video that shows him setting a BAD EXAMPLE by not flying a standard landing pattern, and by flying extremely close to several dangerous obstacles (hangar, cars, tarmack)?

Yeah, I think that video is cool as shit. Very impressive. Not quite as impressive as a 678 ft. swoop - but very impressive.

Canuck

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I have been away from my computer for four days and this thread has degraded in a way that really surprised me. I would cut the "debate" part out and start it as another thread altogether, but I just don't have the time right now.

Anyway, congratulations to jay for fucking killing the record! You took the lunch money AGAIN, my brother! Also, congratulations to Mark Shimmel for absolutely blistering the old record as well (and he is a CPC guy; not a pro). I hate that I missed that meet, but there will be plenty of others.


Chuck

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-------------------------------------------
Why not require stand up landings.
------------------------------------------

is this Derek VanB? just curious, i think it is. Derek i don't usually post, but i just wanted to say that the most painful injuries i sustained during the competition were abrasions to both hands. one is pretty deep. anyway, they happened during two of my zone accuracy rounds, where there was a bonus for standing up (or no deduction). i was trying to stand up, happened to land where there wasn't much gravel to slide on, and face planted. i slid in all of my distance rounds and wasn't hurt in the least. might be a lucky coincidence, but i can't remember ever being hurt at all when i've slid in, and i've done some downwinders on a Velo 96 for fun that were pretty brisk (16mph).
hope you're doing well man, would love to see you in the sky somewhere.
i 've read most of the posts on this thread, and i hope people can stop making this into a personal thing. it doesn't seem to me that Derek has made any of this personal.
then again, that's why i don't post much.



Say what you mean. Do what you say.

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I hate that I missed that meet, but there will be plenty of others.



Yes there will be and I look forward to seeing you again:)
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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You mean the video that shows him setting a BAD EXAMPLE by not flying a standard landing pattern, and by flying extremely close to several dangerous obstacles (hangar, cars, tarmack)?



He also came extremely close to a couple of people on the ground that had no idea he was swooping them. Also, crossing the runway (not to mention the parking lot and spectator area) on landing is considered poor form at this particular DZ, although not strictly enforced. I think that sets a bad example.

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I've been interpreting Derek's posts as, "Raise the bar in this way", not as a personal attack on any person or group of people.

Why are some of you sinking this to such a negative and personal level.

Lighten up...unless I'm misinterpreting your posts, and you're in fact having some fun with Derek. In that case, I'll just eat a donut. Maybe I'll call Ashley.

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

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Jesus Christ Shitbags!!!

Don't you all realize that you both have valid points! There are times for standup landings, and there are times for sliding it in. Skyjumping is a fluid environment, and you cannot have a definate and hard fast rule for every situation. Derek and Steve, you both know this. Everyone else... Focus more on your own landings instead of laying blame here on the internet. God knows EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US needs to focus on this subject. This thread is dead and my only hope is that it will be locked soon.

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Hey, MonoUno.

I was with Derek having dinner in a very disreputable pub in San Francisco on one of the nights of the competition with two other skydivers, and we had a great conversation about swooping.

Mainly, how the competitors were going to compensate for the altitude and weights and how speed records would be set, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly that landings should be controlled and ideally should be stood up. I scoff at the condescending attitude of some of the top swoopers that I just "cant understand".

What limit is reasonable if standing up isn't? Is it landing without needing a red helicopter ride? Is it landing without needing medical treatment?

That's my question: If somebody is allowed to crash land in the accomplishment of a record, does it only not count if they died? If not, how totalled can somebody be, and still claim the record?

You know, on my world record, we could easily have gotten four sequential points with 121 skydivers if we all agreed to go in. You know?

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You know, on my world record, we could easily have gotten four sequential points with 121 skydivers if we all agreed to go in. You know?



:ph34r::ph34r: I believe there is a rule that the people that are on a World Record, that they all have to stay alive at least 48 or 24 hours after the record has been set.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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I agree wholeheartedly that landings should be controlled and ideally should be stood up.



Hey Deuce, controlled and stood up are not synonymous. Butt slides can be very controlled, as can a PLF. I would say that classic accuracy landings are very controlled, but almost never stood up.

As to injuries and what degree of injury is acceptable before a score should no longer count, how should it be different than any other sport where injury is a possibility? Should a boxer not be able to win a match if he is bleeding by the end of it? Should a marathon runner not get a final time if he collapses after crossing the finishing line from complete over exertion? Just food for thought...

Canuck

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Ok ok boys, it was the shitty piloting but I have plenty of excuses



hardley, britt. you and cat are awesome. im so glad you guys came out, i know you learned alot. now you have an entire winter, and next season to practice what you learned.

i for one, will work with you two as much as possible if we could just close the gap for a weekend or two. im seeing a trip to huston in my future, hopefully you two could come out here also.

stay focused, and practice. you will be surprized at whatt you mind will allow you to do.

hope to see you girls soon, keep it up. and "go big";)

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I don't know, JP. What I do know is that I have, when the condition of the landing area dictates it, been competing in battle gear (motocross pants, gloves, long tops) since the first PPPB meet in Perris in the summer of 2001. It was at that meet that people started really losing skin on their landings, even the "controlled" ones. I have way too much art work on my legs to do otherwise and I simply hate road rash.

That said, there is simply no way in the world you war going to stand up, or even run out a landing under a crossbraced canopy loaded at 2.4 in a fifteen mph downwind. You simply must have a good sliding technique or you are going to ball it up every time. I don't known a single competitive swooper who hasn't lost skin at one point or another, but you are going to do what you gotta do to get the job done. It seriously would not surprise me to see the top competitors competing in lycra bicycle shorts or running tights in order to cut down on wind resistance, just like those morons do in downhill mountain biking and other cycling. Ever see those guys wipeout? Horrific example of roadrash there, but they all wear that stuff and it offers absolutely no protection whatsoever. Me? I will keep to the battle gear and protect my 42 year old body as best I can (while still making the gates). Maybe I will get Nancy Tremblay to make me a "smarter" set of armored pants.

I slide nearly every single landing I do to a complete stop on my feet. The exceptions are competition zone accuracy, where I generally stand up, and competition distance, where I reach as far as possible and generally land like a long jumper (on my feet then my ass in rapid succession) since that's the point of the exercise: maximum distance.

Chuck

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