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frost 1
Agreed :).
And yes, you can - a. get a longer line set or b. get longer risers to keep the VX in a dive more.
And yes, you can - a. get a longer line set or b. get longer risers to keep the VX in a dive more.
SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.
Canuck 0
You crack me up. I said straight out in my last post that I have not personally fully developed the technique which best suits the Velo flight characteristics, yet you want to bet me a jump ticket that I haven't based on my on-line profile. Not that it really matters, but I haven't exactly done 170 jumps a year over the last 10 years. Ah forget it...
Yeah, Tagle was jumping a VX. Does that strengthen your argument? He got a Velo and started kicking ass. I see you jump a VX 111. Was that the one JC had before he also made the switch?
Since you never answered the question from my previous hypothetical question - allow me to do it for you: It is the pilot not the canopy until you get to a certain level of proficiency, and then it becomes the canopy completely. Otherwise it becomes a completely plausible argument that whichever one, Tagle or Moledski, we had put under the Stiletto might have actually beat the other under his Velo.
If you want your jump ticket, you're gonna have to come up here to claim it. It's a long haul for a jump out of a 206 from 11,000.
Canuck
Yeah, Tagle was jumping a VX. Does that strengthen your argument? He got a Velo and started kicking ass. I see you jump a VX 111. Was that the one JC had before he also made the switch?
Since you never answered the question from my previous hypothetical question - allow me to do it for you: It is the pilot not the canopy until you get to a certain level of proficiency, and then it becomes the canopy completely. Otherwise it becomes a completely plausible argument that whichever one, Tagle or Moledski, we had put under the Stiletto might have actually beat the other under his Velo.
If you want your jump ticket, you're gonna have to come up here to claim it. It's a long haul for a jump out of a 206 from 11,000.
Canuck
Take your pissing contest to PM's please.
frost 1
PM sent
SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.
Canuck 0
Sorry Chuck, I had specifically requested that we not dick wagg and tried to keep the discussion productive. I know the topic has been beat around lots before, but I think it's still a valid one.
Others' opinions?
Canuck
Others' opinions?
Canuck
It seems that you believe the velo to be more forgiving of an imperfect swoop. I really don't know but this may be true. I've seen lots of people swoop velos and they stay in a dive that with no further input would put them into the ground, yet if they pull it out at just the right moment they seem to go forever. The icarus canopies i've seen (and personally fly, though not x-braced) seem to have a more natural tendency to come out of that dive and fly almost parallel to the ground with little input. I guess if you don't have your turned dialed in the ability to sustain the dive till the "oh shit factor" makes you pull it out could be a beneficial thing??
Anyway, as for the "mine is better than yours argument", sports which are dependent on equipment always see these little duels... Trek has won the Tour de France for the past several years, does that mean Trek is the best bike ever, or Lance Armstrong is badass.? Same for motorcycling, yamaha, suzuki, honda, whatever. The truth of the matter is yes, gear does make a difference, but without talent the best gear in the world will do absolutely jack for you. And, that said, gear is constantly changing. Who knows which company will come out with the next breakthrough innovation. For those of you jumping on the velo bandwagon, I'm sure you know that the factory team jumps hma linesets not available to you retail. So, get over your obsession with what canopy will make you fly better and learn how to fly! Sorry for the rant. I know I don't have much experience but certain things hold true regardless of their application.
Anyway, as for the "mine is better than yours argument", sports which are dependent on equipment always see these little duels... Trek has won the Tour de France for the past several years, does that mean Trek is the best bike ever, or Lance Armstrong is badass.? Same for motorcycling, yamaha, suzuki, honda, whatever. The truth of the matter is yes, gear does make a difference, but without talent the best gear in the world will do absolutely jack for you. And, that said, gear is constantly changing. Who knows which company will come out with the next breakthrough innovation. For those of you jumping on the velo bandwagon, I'm sure you know that the factory team jumps hma linesets not available to you retail. So, get over your obsession with what canopy will make you fly better and learn how to fly! Sorry for the rant. I know I don't have much experience but certain things hold true regardless of their application.
frost 1
Quote. So, get over your obsession with what canopy will make you fly better and learn how to fly!
Amen
SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.
Niklasp 0
Well not forgiving in a “low turn” sense. More like being in the middle of your turn and realising that you are a bit on the high side, and then do “stuff” (more riser(s)etc.) to keep it in the dive so you hit the gate and don’t come in too high.
“So, get over your obsession”… is kind of uncalled for.. all I was asking for was just a specific question about a certain flight characteristic on the two canopies.
“So, get over your obsession”… is kind of uncalled for.. all I was asking for was just a specific question about a certain flight characteristic on the two canopies.
Canuck 0
Good post. Your observation of the difference in flight characteristics between the Velo and VX is the same one that I've made.
What seems to be going the distance now is some combination of higher loadings, multi-rotational turns, steeper approaches, and an assisted recovery. In the right hands, the Velocity seems very well suited to that style.
A couple of my fellow Canuckleheads that both did very well at last years WC (Johnny Z, and Pauly) both jump VXs and have both expressed their opinions that they think the Velo is a much easier canopy to keep pointed at the ground. At least one of them, I beleive, is making the switch.
Canuck
What seems to be going the distance now is some combination of higher loadings, multi-rotational turns, steeper approaches, and an assisted recovery. In the right hands, the Velocity seems very well suited to that style.
A couple of my fellow Canuckleheads that both did very well at last years WC (Johnny Z, and Pauly) both jump VXs and have both expressed their opinions that they think the Velo is a much easier canopy to keep pointed at the ground. At least one of them, I beleive, is making the switch.
Canuck
First of all, I must apologize to the original poster in this thread. I did not intend to imply that he was obsessed. As for the bigger dive, bigger turn, etc... At some point won't the canopy and pilot reach a terminal velocity, after which any bigger turn or dive will result in no or little speed gains? At this point the canopy which can stay parallel to the ground for the longest amount of time following such a "terminal turn" will go the distance. Like I said, I'm just learning, but my intuition leads me to believe that with an accurately performed high-degree turn at which little or no input is required for the canopy to plane-out, the canopy with the flatter glide ratio will prevail. I guess I'm repeating myself now, just trying to hash out and understand myself the physics of the swoop so that I may improve myself.
QuoteYeah, Tagle was jumping a VX. Does that strengthen your argument? He got a Velo and started kicking ass.
JT was kicking ass long before he got a Velo. He is an awesome pilot.
As for everything else goes, I think it is more pilot than anything. JC did awesome under his VX's. Now he is doing awesome under a Velo. Give him some other x braced canopy and I'll bet he'll do.....you got it, awesome.
I also think marketing has a lot to do with it. but thats another discussion. Get what you like.
Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome
diveout 0
I was wondering what I was going to start, sheesh!
I base my original post on the reputation, research and people involved with performance designs as well.
No one can honestly say that any other company has the resources or facilities at their disposal that PD does.
I love my Xaos 21, I've got about 1000 jumps and 10 ground-launches on it. It has a more efficient stabilizer design than my velo, a better lineset design, along with cooler colors, but guess what. If I'm gonna enter a swoop contest I'll have a Velo over my head until something better comes along.
The JVX may be close, only time will tell. For now I'm sure that it's not worth $2500...not to me. It does fly awful nice.
I base my original post on the reputation, research and people involved with performance designs as well.
No one can honestly say that any other company has the resources or facilities at their disposal that PD does.
I love my Xaos 21, I've got about 1000 jumps and 10 ground-launches on it. It has a more efficient stabilizer design than my velo, a better lineset design, along with cooler colors, but guess what. If I'm gonna enter a swoop contest I'll have a Velo over my head until something better comes along.
The JVX may be close, only time will tell. For now I'm sure that it's not worth $2500...not to me. It does fly awful nice.
112 0
Få nu bare skiftet til en VELO!!!
/112
/112
Niklasp 0
Translation: Thomas 112 votes for velo.
If you remove the “mine is bigger…hmm better than yours” from this post I’ve got the opinions/info that I was asking for
Thanks again
If you remove the “mine is bigger…hmm better than yours” from this post I’ve got the opinions/info that I was asking for
Thanks again
Widgeon 0
There's alot more going on beneath the surface on the competition velocity that factory pilots and other somewhat 'sponsored' athletes have access to, that is a given. I would venture to guess the same holds true for other manufacturers as well but no matter. Does it give them an unfair advantage? I would say no... Apparently there's alot out there you can do when you feel your canopy or current rig is lacking in one aspect or another. I've been experimenting with different riser lengths and it made an immense difference in my situation. Chances are that someone else has had the same problem you've had and not everyone had the same solution fix their problem. Different linesets, equipment choices, wingloadings, are all variables that can drastically effect your performance under canopy. Even different turning techniques can produce the results you're after. Not to knock any canopy design, but there is just not one canopy that is the best out there for everyone. It is and always will be the pilot and not the canopy. Just stick with what you've got if you like it and talk to an experienced coach about your problem and I think you'll find your problem will be fixable. But hey, I've only got 400 jumps, what the fuck do I know?
LOL you are comparing apples and cherries my man. You missed the point completely, so i will let it go at that.
P.S. Do you know what Tagle was jumping before he got signed by the PD team?
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