So who is interested in swooping, but afraid to post? promise,nobody will bite..

[Brains 2]

Thanks man.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Ok I'll bite.
From someone who is not a swooper, but would like to start competing in the CPC next year, what is the best way/method to set up a training program for themselves?

This is a brain dump so sorry if it's a little scattered
In competition swooping, having a solid pattern is everything. The ability to put yourself in the correct airspace at the correct altitude is by far the hardest part. The actual turn itself is relatively easy. So I'd suggest working on a pattern based off of the GATE (so work it out backwards) that you can apply anytime, anywhere.

Try and have as consistent a turn style as possible. For example if you turn fast on one turn and slow on the next you'll have to have entirely different altitudes (and hence patterns) to complete the turn in the correct place at the correct altitude.

The trick is to try and keep your variables at a minimum. To do so you have to have a concrete plan for each and every approach you do so that you have measurable metrics to work off of. If you have no idea how high and where you started your downwind, base leg and final in x conditions and you vary your turn rate every time, when your swoop isn't as successfull as you'd like you've got nothing to go back and measure against what went wrong. So set waypoints for each part of your jump (both altitude and location). Fly those waypoints as best you can and then land where you land. Look at your location and entry point relative to the gate and backtrack through everything to figure out what you need to change. Try and change as little as possible each time so you can figure out what's best for your flying style (edit: for example change EITHER altitude OR your waypoint on the ground but not both - that's introducing 2 variables at once. After that you can change the other if you'd like but try not to do both at the same time).

Move the gates regularly. Don't always practice in conditions you like. Instead set up the course into wind, cross wind, downwind and various angles of the above. Each set of conditions require a different initiation point relative to the gate and we don't always have a say in which conditions the competition will be held in so you need to be comfy in all of them.

There's more for sure, but this should be plenty to get you started
edit: To touch on what spizzz said....don't worry about what everyone else is doing or if you have a bad run. Some competitions go better than others but you're almost always your own worst enemy. Trust in your practice, try not to second guess yourself and let the cards fall where they may. Often you'll be surprised how well they fall
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[marks 0]

learn to hit gates.. not so much hit the gates but learn the setup that will get you in the gates. once you achive that then start fine tuning your turns abd the speed of the turns..

thye setup is the most important part. you mess that up you can still score but you will not be at the top. and the setup is the hardest to get perfect...

set up gates and start hitting them.

[Brains 2]

good info and thanks. I do remember hearing people at our 1st CPC meet talking about figuring out their setup in the crosswind conditions. It seemed like it took till round five before everyone had it figured out. I can see where practicing in all directions would come in handy.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[ianmdrennan 2]

made a couple of edits and corrections, but you're welcome

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

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I can see where practicing in all directions would come in handy.

Yup, hell, it was at my home DZ and I was sucking it up at that meet due to the wind. I hadn't spent much time swooping in 12mph winds that were a crosswind from that direction and angle.

Everyone was sucking it up that meet.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Spizzzarko 0]

In competition swooping, having a solid pattern is everything.




Actually that's a huge point that I forgot to mention. Doing this will also make you more predictable to everyone else. I do the same thing every time, on every jump as far as the pattern goes. It becomes routine, but I find that if something doesn't feel right, then something is wrong. It's all about habit patterns.

Grant

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Yup, hell, it was at my home DZ and I was sucking it up at that meet due to the wind. I hadn't spent much time swooping in 12mph winds that were a crosswind from that direction and angle.

Everyone was sucking it up that meet.

One of the most challenging meets last year was the Z-hills meet. We had a 15mph + crosswind which meant a lot of people didn't get the penetration they expected back to the gates which a) put them low and b) put them in line with the gate, not past it so people were entering at angles.

It's a tough thing to do but knowing how far to turn past, or ahead of the gate, so that the wind can push you onto your gate line is a great thing to know.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

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It's a tough thing to do but knowing how far to turn past, or ahead of the gate, so that the wind can push you onto your gate line is a great thing to know.

Yeah. I'm learning, getting there, but still have a LOT to learn.

I will say that everyone at that first TX meet did much better at the second TX meet, folks were cleaner on their patterns and were hitting the gates much more consistantly.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ianmdrennan 2]

btw Mark - good job on starting this thread.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[davelepka 4]

Those guys left out a few things.

If you're not swooping now, attending the CPC meets to observe and ask questions would be a good idea.

Start small, like with double fronts, then progress on to 90's. How quickly to progress is up to the pilot, but in addition to the beneifts of repetition, doing the same type of landing on different days (as-in different waether conditions) will only add to the benefits. If you jump every weekend, plan on spending a few weeks working with doulbe fronts, then 90's and so on.

Hold off on setting up entry gates for awhile. They will be another distraction/target at this satge. Work on your accuracy in the beginning by flying a consistant approach, note where you start your turn, and see where you end up. Relate that to the winds for the day, and you can see what you get with type of landing. Again if you jump every weekend, give it a few months of work, and then try some gates.

Your timing is good if you want to start now, and compete next year. You should be more than ready for next season. Just remember that a consistant pilot can do very well in the CPC with a solid 90 degree turn for their approach. There's no reason to rush into anything.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Yep - Dave is right. No need to rush into any of this. The first step is getting a solid pattern, etc without hitting the gates BUT you should have an accuracy marker/target/gate that you can work backwards from. Hitting the marker SHOULD NOT be the priority at this stage.

Thanks Dave.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

Oh yeah, one other thing even though I think it falls in the 'obvious' category.....get coaching from people like PD or Jim or Team Extreme! It's worth it.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[skyedivr 0]

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Oh yeah, one other thing even though I think it falls in the 'obvious' category.....get coaching from people like PD or Jim or Team Extreme! It's worth it.

Blues,
Ian

the "Obvious" category differs from person to person, so good thing you said this.

Ok I am crawling back in my hole for now.

my power is beyond your understanding.

[ianmdrennan 2]

I am going to beat you senseless this weekend

Performance Designs Factory Team

[marks 0]

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Yeah. I'm learning, getting there, but still have a LOT to learn.

dont we all...

...

ok so your somone that jumps a BIG highly loaded xf2....

so when you get very high speed the pressure from your toggles or risers or harness isnt so intense that it is hard to controll the wing?. i havent jump a large wing like that with that loading, but i would think the increased controll surface area on a wing that size with that loading would make it harder to turn at max speed?....

[AggieDave 6]

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so when you get very high speed the pressure from your toggles or risers or harness isnt so intense that it is hard to controll the wing?. i havent jump a large wing like that with that loading, but i would think the increased controll surface area on a wing that size with that loading would make it harder to turn at max speed?....

Good question, although I've never jumped a smaller wing at this wingloading, so I don't know how to compare.

I know that its reasonably hard to keep the canopy in a dive if I'm a bit high on my approach. The front riser pressure builds reasonably fast (not super fast like a Stiletto or my old Heatwave, though). Beyond that, I haven't found it hard to turn or anything else.

I have found that its very easy to get the canopy to start climbing after plane out when hauling ass, though. A slight bump to the rear risers just putting my thumbs on them will send up climbing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Brains 2]

I might have overstated the not a swooper part. I am a "beer line swooper" i would like to be a competitive swooper. But for any others reading this thread, absolutely!

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[outlawphx 1]

Does everyone use a Neptune or some other digital altimiter in addition to their eyes to judge their setup height?

[AggieDave 6]

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Does everyone use a Neptune or some other digital altimiter in addition to their eyes to judge their setup height?

Not everyone, but a large number of people are using them.

I would highly recommend trying a Neptune.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JGarcia 0]

I'm holding out for L&B's new toy(s) before buying a Neptune. However, after I fractured T6 & T7 last 4th of July (luckily I was only out of jumping for 3 weekends), I strapped an additional altimeter to my right leg strap that I now use QUITE OFTEN to cross reference what my eyes are seeing to the altitude I'm at, through various stages of my set up. I recommend AT least that 2nd Altimeter/ Neptune bec we're only human.

Cheers!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[marks 0]

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Does everyone use a Neptune or some other digital altimiter in addition to their eyes to judge their setup height?

not everyone, but there are quite a few that are useing more than one now. ive seen 3 on one guy.

the last comp i was at i used it all day then my second to last swoop. "freestyle" i got it soaked for a couple of minutes under water, well it quit working, well i had to do my last landing without it. it went fine, but i relized i was getting too dependant of it.so now im useing it for the first few landings each weekend them im trying not to use it,

you really do become dependant on it so be carefull... it is a TOOL and that is it. everyone should use tools, just dont become dependant on it..

[spoons 0]

I know have low jump numbers but i have been very gradual in my 'swoop' progress. Over the last 40 jumps or so i've been doing about 45 degree carving turns (having built up from double fronts and very small turns) and was struggling to find the right height - as it happens i got a neptune for my 21st and i thought that it would help...i find it doesn't really, being hard to read and process heights whilst setting up and watching traffic. And then when i do successfully use it i find myself doubting my set up.

I find that the easiest way to 'dial in' my small turns (building slowly up to almost 90s now though

By all means others seem to find a digital altimeter useful but i certainly find it easier to judge it purely by eye...constantly throughout the turn as well as set up height. Just my thoughts Does anybody else find something similar?

[outlawphx 1]

I've always used my eyes too, but I'm not trying to set up a 270 at 700ft... It's easier to judge height closer to the ground, and you're not commiting yourself too much with a 45 degree turn in.

[ccowden 0]

Swoopers are stupid and tempt fate with their reckless attiutudes. Why do they feel the need to kill themselves under a perfectly good canopy?!

Oh, oops, wrong thread!

Screw you guys! I'm now in The Zone too!