Icarus, Xaos or Velo ???

[Swooopa-x 0]

Ohhhh Boy I can see it now : can- open - worms everywhere !!!!!!!!!!
I'm jumping a 93 fx loaded different for different events maxing at 2.25 . just finished our SA nationals with silver overall and quite pleased with me-self. The canopy has plenty jumps on it and to be quite honest its about as zp as a tennis racket!

Oh what to dooo? Icarus, Xaos or Velooo

jumped a 88 xaos but not enough to say yay or nay...
a VX seems a no go - i do camera and from what i hear of openings... better the xaos (what about the JVX tho )
never jumped a velo??????? real curious tho... The velo's seem to be such a dominant force: are the PD guys flying a superior wing or are they just outflying everyone (due to their talent, 'PD's budget' and just sheer damn time and effort)
My brain says Velo, but guys have said to me that PD leads because there is more money to keep the guys practicing . I Dunno!!!???
N E Way- not many X braced wings in SA and laying out big cash without testing all the products really sux so I'm looking for advice here .opinions. food for thought -please and thanx.

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[Bartje 0]

Swooopa,

I do use the Velo for al my jumps but I going to do my camerajumps with a Crossfire2 and hop & pop with the Velo.
My Fx had sometimes to nervous openings and the Xaos is good for fun.
The JVX has one thing negative, you can only do 200 jumps with a lineset.
The are a spare lineset with the canopy when you order one.
What dz are you jumping?

A FreeFly Gypsy

[ccowden 0]

I jump a Velo for my all-around canopy. Mostly just non-work jumps and swooping, but I also use it for doing tandem video. I have never had an issue with openings for flying camera or getting back from LONG spots. However, mine is only loaded at 2.1 so I can't say for sure if I would feel the same at 2.3.

As far as the performance side of things- I LOVE IT!!!

[Swooopa-x 0]

I'm jumping at JSC(johannesburg skydiving club).
5000 ft ASL
sounds like u have jumped many different canopies.
i have a 105 hurricane that i use if i need a back to back rig but mostly i use my fx. i find the openings managable but hey .... i have nothing to really compare to.
you said the xaos is 'fun' - so it sounds to me that you consider the velo a more serious swoop machine ......maybe you can explain...? maybe a comparison of what distances are you getting on the two canopies.
thanx

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[Canuck 0]

My thoughts:

JVX = Way too much money. Unless this canopy proves itself superior to everything else out there, it's not worth $500-700 more than what you can buy a Velo, VX, or Xaos with.

VX = If you're going to buy a 27 cell x-braced canopy, you might as well get a Xaos 27. Better openings, better lines.

Xaso = Yup, I'd deffinately consider one of these in the future.

Velo = I love mine, and the competition results speak for themselves. Yes the PD crew trains a lot (but so does the Icarus crew and the Xaos crew). For sure it is mostly the pilot, but even Mr. Tagle isn't going to win any pro events under a Stiletto these days...

Canuck

[RMURRAY 1]

I had an FX and now have a VX. The VX opens way better - no complaints. I do not do video. The JVX can be made with Vectran lines - I believe.

rm

[superstu 0]

i've jumped a vx for the past 500+ jumps or so and i've done camera jumps with it and i just don't watch the openings, i look at the horizan. but yes, the opening on the vx definetly are not a xaos openings. I love my VX though primarily because it's one of the most challenging canopies i've flown.
i've also put about 50+ jumps on a velocity, which isn't all that much but enough to make a rough juddgment on it. i was really torn between which canopy to get because of the way the velo flew and the ease of it's swooping ability. to me any way, the velo was a lot easier to swoop its like on autopilot compared to the VX. now i'm not saying which canopy is better because to be honest IF there is a difference in performance from one canopy to another i don't think it's noticable and the pilot is still the determining factor.
the xaos, i wasn't all that impressed with but i'm thinking maybe i tried one that was out of trim or was a little wierd. cause it felt more like a 9 cell then a xbraced canopy, meaning not as rigid. the openings on the one i tried were not the openings i've seen on countless other xaos's either, so really i would have to say i havne't even jumped a xaos yet.

the JVX i've put about 10-15 jumps on it and is a definate improvment on the VX. openings, flight characteristics, and SWOOPING all are absolutely fantastic. and the canopy is so much smoother to fly and swoop, oh it's great. i wrote up a little review and it's posted somewhere on this forum. but if i had $2500 to spend taht would be it, but that's just it i don't and that's a very steep price.

one thing to note. the VX came out in 99' and has not changed since then. if you buy a brand new vx now it's the same planform and trim as in 99', but that's what the JVX is for. the velocity on the other hand is not the same today as it was in past seasons, there have been more 'tweakage' going on. and the velocity that the factory team flies is not anything like 'regular' production line velocity that us 'regular' jumpers fly.
from what i hear the factory team's velocities and the JVX are the only 2 canopies specifically designed for rear riser flying and swooping, but that is just from what i hear.

damn that turned out to be a lot longer post then origninally intended.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[Bartje 0]

did a weekend at jsc with my Fx89,
I would say the Velo for jumping at jsc, as I feel it there is much more lift in a Velo then in a Fx or Xaos.
I did jump some canopies, I try to feel how they fly and land but the canopies I know best are the Stil107, Crossfire 99, the Fx 89 and the Velocity79. The Xaos78 and Rage84 I only have 50 jumps on each.
I even did jump the Blade Runner 104 at Pietermaritzburg, what a canopy,
In december I will be back in SA to do some jumps at jsc, Tonto, be there for a ws coacj-hing I hope.

A FreeFly Gypsy

[diablopilot 2]

Because of the camera flying I do, the only ones I'll jump regularly are the Xaos line (and I jump the 27's).

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skygod7777 0]

Quote

Oh what to dooo? Icarus, Xaos or Velooo

what's up

my personal opinion is the vx, i loved my vx, i put about 500 jumps on vx's (about 400 on an 85). the openings on my vx where great in my opinion, quick, but far from hard. i jump camera and it opens fine for it. the vx has harder front riser pressure with lighter rears, while the velo has ligher fronts and very managable rears still.

i have about 50 jumps on velo's (which i own a 96 now, which i only bought because a bigger vx wouldn't fit into my container) i like the way they fly, and open, but i really prefer my old vx's openings (the velo is a bit squirrely, but ends up back on heading still).


xaos i don't have very many jumps on, but i really don't car for them, the rear riser pressure is just too much for me, i just don't like it. as far as the way it flys is fine, but i like the vx and the velo much more.


later

[Spizzzarko 0]

what's your opinion on the hma lines?

[skymedic 0]

JP,

is there a noticable difference between the Xaos 21's and 27's? just curious...

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[DrewGPM 0]

for my own information, where does the Samurai fit in to all of this?

[ianmdrennan 2]

??? It's an entirely different class. Same as XF2, Katana, Blade.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[DrewGPM 0]

thanks...guess i'll have to do more research and learn the difference between those "classes" of canopy

[Swooopa-x 0]

Hey all - thanx so much for the input.
and hey if any of you maufacturers ever read this : GET SOME DEMO's DOWN HERE PLEEEEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the market may be small but we're supacool dedicated freakazoid nutjobs thru and thru!


"makeitfloatmakeitfloatmakeitfloataand-umph!!!!"
-SwooopaFrica-

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[Swooopa-x 0]

Hey Drew its not a diss, i just think its difficult to compare riser pressure an stuff of crossbraced canopies with that of regular non crossbraced nine cell canopies.
First time i jumped my fx i tried to do a big slow 180 and I remember thinking "hOLy sH*t !!!! either this thing is broken or you need to be a flyng steroid to make it work !!!!!" Once you get it though its no problem. Really just a matter of 'feel'.
Afterwards my 9 cell feels kind of like a dinky toy.
wierd but true---- and i love my hurricane...


"makeitfloatmakeitfloatmakeitfloataand-umph!"
-SwooopaFrica-

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[stilet 0]

I'm also wonder about Xaos 27.. Do you find any noticeable differences from Xaos 21?..

[DrewGPM 0]

I never took it as a diss. If it was meant as a diss...it wasn't a very good one. I was sincere about my need/desire to learn more about the difference between the cross braced, non-cross braced and the airlock canopies.

Your commnets about the difference in riser pressures makes sense. i'm sure there are other differences, too. I want to learn about those differences.

I've been jumping a Sabre 210 for 600 jumps...my knowledge of the high performance canopy market is pitiful...but i'm trying to learn.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Just because a canopy has the same name (chaos) and a few more cells, doesn't mean that they are the same. Any 21cell and 27 cell canopy are going to be quite different.

[diablopilot 2]

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what's your opinion on the hma lines?

I think HMA is the way to go. I've got one lineset that has ove 900 jumps on it and is still in great condition. Precisions use of 400lb Dacron for the control lines is ok as well, though I wouldn't mind HMA again for that as I change them every 300 to 400 jumps no matter what the condition.

HMA packs small, is easy to work with doesn't shrink, and has cause no opening problems for me.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

is there a noticable difference between the Xaos 21's and 27's? just curious...

In the way they fly and open, yes. Both open nice, just different, and as for flying, well it's mych like comparing an FX to a VX, but I think both Xaos canopies are refinements on those designs.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[listo 0]

I fly a velo 120 @ 2.05 ppf. I get some rediculously smooth openings so I have no problem flying my camera with it. My swoops are really long and fast. When using rear risers, I can fly them to the point that the canopy is about to stall and then transfer to toggles and have enough lifting power to "pop" myself up 10 feet (3 meters) back into the air and come down like I was flying a 290 or something. If the winds are kicking up, I will add weights to a max wing load of 2.25 ppf for extra penetration, but the dives are noticably longer.

A quick description of the openings... something like a crossfire. At first (first 10 jumps) the openings were very unconsistant. I called PD and asked what I was doing wrong. With simple instructions over the phone, it was opening on heading and smoother than a baby's backside. It doesn't seem to matter if I am doing hop-n-hooks or free flying. It always opens the same. Sub terminal openings tend to make the nose want to search a little, but 3-4 seconds of free fall seems to get enough speed to make things work like regular skydives.

As for the PD guys flying specialized line sets, not so much. Jay Moledski used to use a modified line set that connected his "D" lines to his "E" lines (brake lines) but didn't do it for long. I was informed that he is now back to a regular set up.

Over all opinion of a velo is ONE HELL OF A CANOPY. You can never go wrong having a PD canopy. They do more research & development than any other canopy manufacturer in the world.

Best of luck to ya!

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[PhreeZone 15]

Last I was hearing through the grapevine was Team PD was flying cascaded HMA on their Velo's. Thats not something Joe Schmo can get, but then again how many other people are out there doing 700-1000 jumps of just swooping in a year?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[listo 0]

I have heard that as well. I have also heard that they are playing around with different line trims too. I guess they are looking at it like nascar teams do, "play with this, tweak that and give 'er a little rubbin for luck"

I know that cascaded HMA has issues too about longevity and that those line sets have to be changed out at rediculously low numbers, but hey, it is PD we are talking about, they can afford to do it. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that is what they are doing these days. HMA, definitely has a lot less drag.

Live today as tomorrow may not come