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marcusr

Jedei Vs Samurai

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hey. ive got about 230 jumps and i just got myself a jedei. its my, dare i say, ::first:: elliptical canopy and i really enjoy flying it. in talking to some people about it, they mentioned how it was sort of the prequel design to the samurai, as both of those canopies are airlocked. ive been doing a bit of reading up about the samurai but i find my sources on the jedei a bit limited. can somebody possibly inform me on how those two canopies might have been designed differently and more importantly how they fly differently.
thanks,
Marcus

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Basically the Samurai is the evolution of the Jedei. Both are higher-performing elliptcals (compared to the bar-setting Stiletto). They are divier canopies that usually don't tend to plane-out after a dive. One major point about Jedei's is that they are almost all individual as many were hand-built and therefore have distinct personalities...as are some Samurais. My girlfriend and I both have PD-built Samurai 105s and even they fly differently from each other (or so she says! :>)
The riser pressure on the Jedei tends to be higher than the Samurai, so it's not as easy to muscle around especially on the bottom end of a swoop.
The openings on the Samurai are still very fast, but not hard...I've been whacked on both, but the Samurai is consitantly easier on opening...a major evolution has been on the openings, Jedeis tended to be a little rougher. The planiform has been changed quite a bit between the two models, the Jedeis tended to have a straighter leading edge which added to the riser pressure, curving the leading edge made pressure lighter but also made openings a little more variable.
Samurais have generally shorter lines so the canopy feels very quick and nimble, not what I'd call twitchy, but it flies very intuitively and naturally...I feel very aytuned to the canopy.

One thing I've noticed on the Samurai is that flat-turns are not as flat as many would like, any movement causes more altitude loss than you might expect. You have to keep in it mind when you're worried about getting low...it'll eat your altitude if you're not careful.

I've heard Brian is offering a 'swoop' line-set on the Samurais now, which I think is a kick-ass thing. I believe it's just longer lines, giving it probably an identical performance envelope to the Katana. I'd opt for it but my fat-ass doesn't need any more speed on that canopy than I can already muster :> The lines were about 2ft shorter than a Velocity 103, which I REALLY noticed when flying the 103, it felt slow and sluggish and I missed my Samurai's agility.

All in all, the Samurai retains the Jedei's good points and improves significantly on it's poorer points, but the Jedei is a good canopy to learn to swoop on regardless.

-R

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hey. ive got about 230 jumps and i just got myself a jedei. its my, dare i say, ::first:: elliptical canopy and i really enjoy flying it. in talking to some people about it, they mentioned how it was sort of the prequel design to the samurai, as both of those canopies are airlocked. ive been doing a bit of reading up about the samurai but i find my sources on the jedei a bit limited. can somebody possibly inform me on how those two canopies might have been designed differently and more importantly how they fly differently.
thanks,
Marcus



You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

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Like was said before, the original jedei had a straight leading edge and a tapered trailing edge. THe straight edge was to keep the openings more on heading, but created extremely ground hungry turns and high front riser pressure. The jedei is extremely ground hungry all together, but can be flattened out if needed. I jumped a jedei 120 original for about 400 jumps and i feel I could put that canopy anywhere you asked me to. All the jedeis were different as they were constantly evolving the design. The jedei sweptwing was the predecessor to the samurai. It was just as ground hungry, as the original, but had tapred leading and trailing edges to change the riser pressure and altitude lost in turns. The samurai is a timeless design. I only have about 20 jumps on my new 105, but is a great canopy and I have no complaints so far.


Cheers,
Travis

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thank you very much kaerock and crazy diver. im going to have some fun on my new wing and have a bit more apreciation for it as well. im probably going to look up how my jedei might compare differently to other jedeis manufactured at different times just for curiosity's sake, and maybe at the next boogie im at, i might be able to get my hand on a samurai.
thanks again;)
marcus

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Ya for sure! Brian Germain is an amazing guy. Give him a call. I have talked to him for hours about canopies and I have never even met him in person, nor bought a canopy directly from him. I simply had a question once and had my canopy relined from him once. By serial number he will be able to tell you if your caonpy is computer cut or hand cut, original or sweptwing, eagle trim or normal, crazy brakes or normal, eagle trim or not....so many options and changes. Airlocks are the shit and so are brians flying skills and knowledge. BUy his book. its great.


Cheers,
Travis

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Ok, if I don't say anything, I will be missing an opportunity to get this all on the record, so here goes…

The Samurai is basically the Jedei 10. I have evolved the design over 10 years, and this is what I found pilots liked the best.

Here are the general design differences:

1) The Jedei has a straight bottom leading edge, and a curved top leading edge. The Sam is curved in both parameters. This causes a very different feel to the canopies. The Jedei has heavier front riser pressure than the Sam, and points itself at the ground more in a toggle turn than the Sam. The openings are also effected, allowing for softer inflation on the Samurai. These are generalities, but I have found them to be true on most canopies.

2) The lines are the same length on both parachutes. This length seems to be the cross-roads of quickness and dive. I do offer a reline option for those that want more dive, but this does make the canopy a bit slower turning. Most people seem to be happy with the standard lines.

3) The parachutes are constructed very differently. The seams of the Sam are stronger, and the reinforcements are heavier. I had to fix some of the Jedei canopies over the years, and I addressed each of those issues so that I would not have to do that work again. I am really good at fixing parachutes, but I would rather be out in the world teaching.

4) The Samurai is laser-cut, and build by PD. The Jedei was first hand-cut and then by a hot-knife plotter. There was some variance in the part shapes, as well as the sewing tolerances, at least at first. There will always be variance in parachute manufacturing, but the differences at the beginning were significant. Now that we have focused on methodology and fastidious inspection, we have not had a single built in turn. We have not had a single repair. I have a lot more free time. Now the problem is, the damn things won't die. I am putting myself out of business!! :)

5) The first several hundred Jedei canopies had "Inboard Stabilizers". Theses were fins extending below the bottom surface, at the "D" lines, located at the 3rd and 6th cell. This helped the canopy to track straighter, and promoted coordinated turns. Elliptical canopies have very small stabilizers, and this was done in an effort to gain back what we lost by going elliptical. I noticed a difference, but most people did not, so I scrapped them. There are ways of flying your parachute so the turns are coordinated. I focus on teaching that art, rather than adding fabric to solve a lack of understanding and skill.

6) The Jedei had equal length "A" lines, while the Samurai and Lotus Max have increasing lengths as you move out toward the wingtip. This flattens the Anhedral arc of the wing, which promotes glide ratio in full flight and allows the parachute to fly more like the slider is pulled down, even when it isn't. The wingtip is drooped, however, which inhibits the wingtip vortices. This reduces drag and promotes lift.

7) The Jedei had no shape to the top surface panels. The side of the top-skins were parallel lines. This made the canopy more rigid in flight by tightening the top-skin, but it reduced the inflated area as well as causing some wrinkles across the top. It also balloons-out the bottom, which reduces the span in flight. The Samurai, however, has carefully shaped top-skin panels. The top-skins are widest at the highpoint of the airfoil, and match the bottom-skin span at the tail. This allow the top to follow its natural arc, which is a larger radius than the bottom. As a result, the Samurai has significantly improved slow-flight characteristics, and consequently lands softer.

8) The Jedei had a smaller slider. This necessitated the use of a slider lip on many of the Jedei canopies, just to make the openings tolerable. By altering the size and shape of the slider, we were able to remove the lip altogether. There are a Jedei pilots out there that bought Samurai's, and they still want a lip. I will build it for them, but they usually remove it as it can make the openings too slow.

9) The lines on the Jedei were made the old fashioned way. I would wrap the lines ten times around two pegs, spaced apart at the appropriate distance. I would bar-tack the bottoms, larks-head the lines on the canopy, and then hang it in a stair-well. I would proceed to pull tension on each line, lock the knots, and "hand-trim" the entire parachute. This allowed me to feel a part of the whole process. It also meant that the overall length varied up to two inches. OK, it seemed like a good idea at the time...
Now we mark the lines under severe tension, and make the loops and bar-tacks at both ends before putting the lines on the parachute. This has allowed us to be accurate to the millimeter. Although I sometimes miss the Zen-labor of sitting in that stair-well.

10) The Jedei went through seven different revisions, and the Samurai went through two. It is a long process to make a wheel round. We built many of each type of Jedei, not just a single prototype. There were hundreds more that we tried only once.

There was the Original Jedei, the Eagle-trimmed Jedei, the Sweptwing, the Eagle Sweptwing, the Fat top Jedei, the Fat top Sweptwing, the Fat top eagle trim Sweptwing, the Original Samurai with the curved Airlocks, and the final Samurai, which has not changed in three years. I like it just where it is. That's a good thing, because John Leblanc is going to kill me if I try to change it…lots of work to make a change at such a large and complex facility.

The Jedei was not a canopy but a process. Now that process is complete.
Hallelujah.
What a long, strange trip it's been...
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Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

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I try not to predict the future, but I know what I have been focusing my energy on. I have been testing the new lineset for the Samurai, the one that yeilds more dive. I really like it, but not everyone flies the same kind of approach as me. The standard lines seem to take care of most people's needs.

The Sensei is coming along nicely. It is a small market canopy, so I don't feel a gigantic urge to finish it. I am really enjoying the learning process. Most designers are more goal-oriented than me. They want to finish the canopy so that they can cash in on the inventment, which is considerable. I understand that angle, but I am in this for the knowledge. I test so that I can teach from my experience, rather than talking out of the other hole.

I have several revolutionary ideas that could change the face of sport parachuting forever, but until people learn how to fly what they have over their heads, there is no point in going further. Right now, the more important thing that I do is teach. That is going to make a greater impact on the sport than better gear.

If that means I won't make a million dollars in parachute sales, so be it. My designs are sound and safe, and people love them. While that wheel is turning, I want to focus my time and energy on what matters most, helping my friends to land softly.
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Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

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Get the the Ranch on a weekday, Brian so we can pull up at altitude, will you?

Maybe I'll even put a jump or to on the new stuff, if you'll let me. (and if you'll build one over 100sq ft.)

I did jump Jerm's Sam once and it was pretty nice.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

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