Info on Dash-M

[rsein 0]

Reading the post about Tempo Reserves made me curious about Dash-M reserves.

Any info on how they fly?
Any tips from people who had to land them?

HISPA #5

[ccowden 0]

I have a Dash-M 135 that I used on my last cutaway and it saved my life. So that was cool. But if you want my opinion on how it flew and landed, then it was a piece of crap. I load it at about 1.5 and hear that they don't do well when loaded, but the stall point was about at my ears and would start to stall even when making a semi hard turn. And the landing sucked. There was just no flare. It was either full flight or stall basically. I tried slowing it down as much as I could but I still slammed into the ground.

My next purchase is a PD reserve. I am really hoping I don't need the Dash-M again before I get it.

But like I said..... it opened, got me to the ground, and saved my life, so I owe it that.

[psw097 0]

Ricky, I could have let you fly one of mine when you were still in Virginia - As long as I could film it. Landing a Raven is more like a semi-controlled collision with the earth.

The short answer is that both my 120 and 135 opened excellent. Also, without question, both fly and land. The 135 landed acceptably at 1.55:1. But, the 120 came out of the sky like a brick and stalls at shoulder level. I consider it a great landing because the aircraft was reusable. Tips are - don't load them real high and/or pack for yourself so you don't need to deploy it.

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Reading the post about Tempo Reserves made me curious about Dash-M reserves.

I flew one on jump #19 loaded about .85 (A 282-M).

Quote

Any info on how they fly?

Very sluggish, at least compared to the Nav 280 I was used to flying.

Quote

Any tips from people who had to land them?

It's the only F-111 or 7-cell I've flown, so I can't give ya any tips on it. The landing was rather painful.

[Miami 0]

My experience with Raven reserves has been a little different than Chris's or Paul's. I load my Raven-MZ 120 at about 1.9 (closer to 2.0 when jumping video) and have landed it at my dz with an elevation of 5500'. Not only did it open flawlessly, it flew and landed like a champ. I got at approx a hundred feet out of the swoop and had a very soft landing. Having the zp topskin doesn't have much of an effect on the performance of the canopy so I would expect the same performance out of a new Dash M.

Like any other highly loaded canopy you absolutely cannot try to bleed off speed before you land...you must have all the speed you can to transfer to lift for your landing.
Hope this helps...

Miami

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have landed both a Raven 109-M and a PD-106R at 5,500 +/- feet. I have also packed a bunch of -M's and PD-R's

Construction: The PD has spanwise bottom skin reinforcement tape, the -M does not. The -M has/had line attachment issues when PA used cheap material to attach the lines to the canopy, the PD does not. I have some pics at home comparing the construction of a -M to a PD-R and they aren't even close. What is funny is that the -M came out long after the PD-R.

Opening: They open in about the same amount of altitude, with the PD opening softer.

Flight: The-M has a very short control range,making it easy to stall one side while turning. the PD flew great, no 'issues' at all.

Landing: -M lands horribly and the PD lands very nice. lots of flare.

This is a case of older technology being better than newer technology. If you have a -M for a reserve, replace it ASAP, preferbly with a PD-R. And no, I am not sponsored, that is just my opinion.

Derek

[ryoder 1,384]

I have landed my Dash-M 218, and my PD218R at a field elevation of 5053 MSL, loaded at 1:1. Both sub-terminal deployments. Both opened, flew, and landed just fine. The only notable difference was that the Dash-M had lighter toggle pressure.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ivanrockon 0]

Quote

Reading the post about Tempo Reserves made me curious about Dash-M reserves.

Any info on how they fly?
Any tips from people who had to land them?

Ricky I had two Tempo rides. They fly like shit and landed very hard. No Dash-M rides for me but for that you can ask Christie and check what happened to her like 5ft. from the ground when flaring...remember...elbow injury in Rantoul...and still suffering from it. Now I have also 4 rides in PD-R113...open great, fly great and landing are soft.

What's up? Buying new equipment? My vote go for PD for sure man!

Ivan "Rock On"

[rsein 0]

>>>What's up? Buying new equipment? ***


No, and if I were, I would also buy another PD-R even though I have never had to use it.


My concern is about my wife. When she bought her rig, it came with a Dash-M (I think 109')
She has never had to use it buy is always good to know what to expect.

We're not sure if we should wait for the new PD-R's or just buy her a current PD reserve. The thing is her rig is an XRS and the current PD-R would have to be very, very small. (although her exit weight is 120lbs)

HISPA #5

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

We're not sure if we should wait for the new PD-R's or just buy her a current PD reserve. The thing is her rig is an XRS and the current PD-R would have to be very, very small. (although her exit weight is 120lbs)

Don't let the numbers fool you, the PD-106R is actually larger than the 109-M. You could put a PD-113R in an XRS, which is much bigger than a 109-M.

Having put 5-6 rides on a 109-M, get rid of it. It was such a poor reserve I didn't sell it, I threw it away.

Derek

[Amazon 7]

I have flown both the Raven-M 249 and a Raven 3 Main. Both were loaded at about 1 to 1

My Raven 3 Was old and had about 500 jumps.. I jump at sea level and it was a single flare to land it. No problems standing up the landings. The canopy was hard to steer and turned far more easily to the right than to the left.

The _ M reserve ride was in Nevada at 1900 ft.. and the opening was sweet and on heading. It was sub terminal and the canopy opened gtreat and flew very nicely. There were no steering issues and the flare was nice and my landing was in the peas.

In my new rig I have a Precision r-Max...I have jumped it one time. The opening on it when I flew it loaded at 1.5 to 1 was on heading and soft... and I also flew it to a great standup landing with plenty of flare right in the "peas"

[Canuck 0]

We're not sure if we should wait for the new PD-R's or just buy her a current PD reserve.***

Seriously, I think you're gonna be waiting a long time before these things hit the market, and even once they do, do you really want your wife to be a test pilot? I need to see some some serious evidence that whatever the new material is holds up to time, various environmental conditions, etc. before I would even think about having one as my last chance.

If your wife is small and skilled enough to handle a main that fits in an XRS, she would have no problem under a tried, tested, and true good ol' fashion PD-R 113, which is tight, but does fit in an XRS.

Just MO

Canuck

[ivanrockon 0]

Quote

The thing is her rig is an XRS and the current PD-R would have to be very, very small. (although her exit weight is 120lbs)

My rig is a RSK and the 4 PD-R rides that I have all of them are in 113 size and my weight is 150lbs w/o gear. Check here for reserve sizing for the rig, basically RSK and XRS are the same....i think I remember reading long time ago from the sunpath website that is was the same thing...a renaming thing.

Ivan "Rock On"

[rsein 0]

>>>If your wife is small and skilled enough to handle a main that fits in an XRS, she would have no problem under a tried, tested, and true good ol' fashion PD-R 113, which is tight, but does fit in an XRS.***

I guess you are right.
The 113' is bigger than her main anyway.

My wife and I had this discusion a while ago but never acted on it.
We should get our shit together and change her reserve!

[edit]Ad removed[/edit]

HISPA #5

[Deano 0]

Quote

I have a Dash-M 135 that I used on my last cutaway and it saved my life. So that was cool. But if you want my opinion on how it flew and landed, then it was a piece of crap. I load it at about 1.5 and hear that they don't do well when loaded, but the stall point was about at my ears and would start to stall even when making a semi hard turn. And the landing sucked. There was just no flare. It was either full flight or stall basically. I tried slowing it down as much as I could but I still slammed into the ground.

My next purchase is a PD reserve. I am really hoping I don't need the Dash-M again before I get it. .

I only have one reserve ride and it was on a 160 PD Reserve, loaded at 1.44

My experience with the PD was the same as your Dash-M. The opening was fine and on heading. It saved my life but flew and landed like crap. It was a no wind jumping day. The glide slope was steep and the canopy really didnt respond to the flare at all. I just pounded in. Its as if the brake lines were 10 inches short. Unfortunately no one caught the landing on video to check the break settings. Im defintely going to be checking them out in full flight if I ever find myself under it again.

Makes you wonder what the results of an unconscious down wind landing would be.

Deano

[Casurf1978 0]

Do you think W/L played a big factor in the way the Dash-M flew for you? I have a 181 Dash M and on my reserve ride it had a built in turn (rigger said it was attributed to weight shift in harness after the chop) and I had to fly it with the left toggle down to my chest to keep it flying straight. I landed it fine but thought for a second I was going to get hurt in the landing.

I'm also getting a PDR BTW.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I have a 181 Dash M and on my reserve ride it had a built in turn (rigger said it was attributed to weight shift in harness after the chop)

Try and pull a toggle down to your chest and harness steer the opposite direction on a correctly built 181 sq ft canopy. You won't be ablt to counter the toggle turn with the harness. Your reserve has a built in turn, it isn't the harness. Raven's have a reputation for built in turns. Poor quality control.

Derek

[crewkeith 0]

i got three rides on a dash m 120 and 4 rides on an five cell swift if the damn thing wasnt so old id take the swift over that dash m. the dash m has really short control range and scary light front riser pressure. didnt try rear risers as the toggle range was so short i would venture the rear riser range would be useless. also mine was a dash mr it had a right turn built in

p.s. im looking for a pd 113r if anybodys got one


.

The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[bschuyler 0]

I have had some experience with different reserves. Sorry, I have not jumped the Tempo.

First, the Raven Dash-M. I have three rides on two different Dash-M 120’s at a 1.5 wing loading. The openings were always good, fast, and on heading. The control range was very short on both (less than a foot). The canopy flew ok, but was twitchy. The landings were hard. I did stand two of them up, but the canopy was at the stall point on both as I was touching down. On one of them, after opening with the brakes still set, I looked back over my shoulder to check my airspace and find my main. The reserve started to stall on that side from just that small amount of harness input. I don’t think this would be a good thing if unconscious.

I had the opportunity to demo both a PD-113 and a PD-106 a few months ago. Since they were demos, they had a bag and pilot chute attached, which probably affected the performance. I made two jumps on each. Both opened good, fast, and on heading. The control range was much better than the Raven’s. Both canopies flew well, but the 106 was a little more twitchy due to the higher wing loading. The landings were much better than the Raven’s, but they are definitely not like the landings you would get out of your main (unless your main is a highly loaded F1-11 7-cell
I am a rigger, and had noticed that a Dash-M 120 seemed to pack smaller than a PD-113. It just so happened that I have both, so I compared the two when open for repacks. I could not believe what I saw. The 120 was approximately one foot shorter in both span and chord than the PD113. This would make the 120 more like a 100 if measured by PD’s method. I think you can guess what my next reserve will be.

Bob

[skydiverek 55]

Quote

Raven's have a reputation for built in turns. Poor quality control.

I cannot comprehend this. Why don't we hear about built in turns on non TSO-D mains, and we hear about the on TSO-D reserves??? How difficult is to make the lines egual lenghts ?

[bschuyler 0]

I know someone that had an original Crossfire that had a built in turn. The lines were not the problem. Something was wrong with the canopy itself. He sent it back twice to be fixed with no luck.

I also put about 20 jumps on a Vengeance 107 a few years ago that had a built in turn. The lines were also not the problem in this case. I put the jumps on it after the owner had just received it back from PD with a new line set to fix this exact problem.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I got my main back, and it looks like there is no damage. I did the math, and I was loading my PD-113R at 1.94. It landed nicely. There was a little twitchyness on final approach, but that was me doing the inputs. I told myself to "Relax, your OK" and the twitchyness stopped. Like I said in another thread

"As far as tempo's and PD's go, like I said earlier, I have landed both and I like the PD's better. Look at this thread even... Look how many people are talking about tempo's stalling, having a built in turn, and what not. You really don't hear about to many PD Reservse blowing up like Ravens do. You don't hear about to many PD-R's stalling on landing. You don't hear about to many PD-R's requiring a grip of toggle input to just fly straight. All of these traits are UN-ACCEPTABLE! A reserve should fly straight, and not stall above your shoulders. If you had a main that stalled with your toggle inputs above your shoulders, would you land it? If you had a main that had a built in turn that required more than 50% toggle input to keep it flying straight, would you land it? I wouldn't land either of those, so, is it to much to ask of canopy manufactures to build a product that fly's correctly? The people out there that continue to purchase these inferrior products are condoning this practice of manufactures making & selling shitty products, just to make a buck. All in all it's your life, and what you wear on your back is your choice, and I really don't care if you live or die, but I have made the choice to jump with quality products. In this sport you get what you pay for, so if you'r looking to save a few buck's then your going to pay for it elsewhere."

SO TAKE HEED!!!

[prost 0]

I have a Raven1-181 and a PD 176. I load them at about 1.3 to 1 and have used both of them more than once. Both flew and landed nicely for a reserve canopy. I have seen people biff their landing after a cut away because they were flying a different type of canopy and also off their best performance level and then blame it on the reserve.

[foxyroxtail 0]

Quote

i got three rides on a dash m 120

p.s. im looking for a pd 113r if anybodys got one

.

I had two rides on my -M 120. Stalled out VERY quickly on the landing, and didn't seem to give indication of it in the practice flares, but adrenaline may have played a factor. Tried to allow for the stall timing on the second ride, still didn't help. Landed like crap and flew about as well.

My hubby bought me a PD 113. Had two on it in October, one at 1500' and one at sea level. Totally predictable, nice to fly, great landing characteristics.

________________________________________