bobsharc 0 #1 November 13, 2004 Info to start- 200 jumps turbo Z 165 wingloading a pound or two over 1 to 1. Interests - SWOOPING. Ok I was gonna buy a 150 not 165 but at the end I made the decision but strongly influenced by others. I didnt listen to the people telling me youll be ok on a 150 vision or something similar - im glad right now i have a 165 . I spent a while doing straight in double fronts and eventually progressed to doin somewhere between a 90 and a 270 depending on the set up and the other canopys in the air and a couple of other factors - not doing to bad but i have had a couple of scares not quite close calls coz im getting used to the performance of the canopy but ones that get the heart thumping. Ive had plenty of onse where i come in too fast ( too fast for me) and have to stab a flare and end up ten foot off the ground again( they hurt most times)That said however i did have one 'bounce' not too hard and it was my fault for doing it in kinda flukey winds so i deserved it. For me i really wanna be like the big boys and be cool and swoop (correctly tho) so i pull a touch high do lotsa hop and pops and just generally wring out the canopy- I recovered from mild induced line twists a couple jumps ago so im gettin to know the limits (after about 70 jumps - sorry forgot to put how many jumps on this canopy)Anyway i do my front riser in watch the ground the trees the people whatevr and when i realise oh crap thats when i flare -sometimes i call it just before and plane out high but more often than not i have to stab out to prevent hitting the ground .I know that is not how to swoop or learn but we were all at this stage once (or will be) I havnt had any real 'coaching' but am getting a lot of advice from a lot of people . I know enough to seperate bad from good however and there is people id listen to more so i am getting some good 'ground coaching ' as such .I witnessed a real bad swoop gone wrong a while back kinda one of my mentors and it was just as i was starting 90s so it shook me up a little(loading a fx or maybe vx 104 at 2.6 to 1...nasty) - i know no matter how good you are its just more or less a matter of time before.!....One of my main guys i listen to has about 8000 jumps not really current anymore - but he wingloads his jonathon 120 at 1.2 to 1 and he even being uncurrent can make that thing talk just as good as any of the others jumping xaos etc at a 2 to 1 wingloading so from what i see im not in a hurry to downsize I know it takes time and practice and small doesnt mean better fast if you dont have the experience and im glad i dont have a 150 - my 165 has so much to offer still at least another 200 /300 jumps before i go downsize .Oh ive also worked two seasons as a packer so i think it helps a little more to be around all the time instead of just a weekend jumper.Sometimes i can picture me hitting the ground the wya the guy i saw did and that doesnt bother me so much as i know sooner or later i wont be lucky but im gonna go ahead and keep doing what im doing i know the risks and im willing to accept them coz it sure does look cool especially to the whuffo first jumpers that are watching.BUT i think i know my limits (for the moment) and im still gonna always be learning the canopys limits and when i am coming in i think im so safe coz i can see the ground and i know to flare before i hit (sarcastically said by the way ).I just thought id throw that out there and see what others say about me or just the thought in general. I welcome all opinions whether i disagree or not .This is my first post after reading for a while so i know i owe the beer but y'all have to come to Ireland to collect. Bob sorry about the length folks but i still didnt even say all i wanted.Know enough to know you dont know enough. Me , I know it all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsharc 0 #2 November 13, 2004 I got my fire retardant blankie out so bring on the flaming - In my opinion i reckon im safer on this(165 @ 1.1.1 ) than being 20 pounds lighter and being on a 150 @ 1.1.1 I dont mean safe tho just safer . I also have a kinda thing goin with someone and im sure he wont mind being named - skyhighkiy - thing being he is gonna be a crater before me.not that i want either of us to bounce but i know tis gonna happen its just about time .Being that im gonna do it anyway who has advice for me to learn how to swoop with minimal risk.I keep being told ( correctly im assuming) that if i have to stab out to avoid hitting the ground im doing it not just wrong but dangerously wrong . I also dont attempt this in unfavourable winds- in fact i hardly ever jump if there is wind i much prefer no wind at all - i think ( waiting on corrections )that the faster you want to come in the less wind the more ideal for landings Bob(the soon to be injured) whats cooler telling your whuffo friends you had a skydiving accident or them around your casket telling each other what a guy you WERE!??again sorry about the long posts people.BLUE SKIES ALLKnow enough to know you dont know enough. Me , I know it all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #3 November 13, 2004 You'll be alot easier to flame if you organise your thoughts and sentences so people can understand what you're trying to say. This way, most will probably just call you a troll and turn away. I'll leave it to someone more experienced to explain in depth how to learn swooping with minimal risk, but I suggest you first re-think your approach to it and your attitude. Right now, you come across as a good example of how one can get seriously hurt despite a low wingloading waiting to happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #4 November 13, 2004 YOu know, Irishman, I was around you so much over this last summer that I never really hear your accent or sentence structure any more. Although I did pick it up a touch, and Ryanne's pretty happy about that. Oh well, Us Americans slaughtered the language and took all the beauty out of it anyway, more power to yah Planning a trip to Ireland before next summer?! at least, I'm thinkin about it. hopefully see yah. BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padraigbrowne 0 #5 November 13, 2004 Did someone say beer ?? Im around any time ya want to buy me a beer But seriously , you want to learn to swoop safely ? Brian Vacher will attend the IPC sometime in January, possibly 21st-23rd January to hold a canopy piloting course . I attended the last one he held and it was fantastic ,guarantee you it will change the way you fly and change how you approach the whole flight .I would definitely recommend it ,If you are interested contact Keith Egan ,PM me if you need his address Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #7 November 14, 2004 Ok, I’ve seen some confusion in Bob’s posts so I’m throwing up an edit of his post with punctuation and a little bit of organization of thoughts. Here. Edit of Bobsharc’s post for those that are having a hard time understanding. To start, here’s some info. 200 jumps, jumping a turbo-z 165, wingloading just a little over 1 to 1. Interests are swooping. Ok, I was gonna buy a 150 instead of a 165 but made the decision (to go with the 165) based on the influence of others. I’m happy about my decision. I spent awhile doing straight-in double fronts and progressed (depending on the set-up, other canopies in the air, and other factors) to doing somewhere between 90’s and 270’s. I haven’t been doing bad but have had a couple scares/close calls that got the heart thumping cause I’m getting used to the performance of this canopy. I’ve had plenty of landings where I’ve come in too fast (for me) and had to stab a flare, putting me ten foot off the ground again (these usually hurt). That said, however, I did have a gentle ‘bounce’, I deserved it for jumping in flukey winds. I really wanna be like the big boys and swoop (correctly) so I pull a touch high and do lots of hop’n’pops, spending the jump wringing out the canopy. I recovered from mild induced line twists a couple jumps ago, so I’m getting to know the limits after about 70 jumps on this canopy. Anyway, I do my front riser and watch the ground, tress, people, whatever. When I realize “oh crap” that’s when I flare-more often than not, I have to stab out to prevent from hitting the ground, but sometimes I call it just before and plane out high. I know that is not the right way to swoop or learn how, but we were all at this stage (or will be) once. I haven’t had any coaching but am getting a lot of advice from people. I know enough to separate bad from good, however, and there are people I’d listen to more so I’m getting somewhat good ground coaching. I witnessed a swoop gone really wrong awhile back. He was kind of one of my mentors and it was as I was starting 90s so it shook me up a little. (he was loading a fx or maybe vx 104 at 2.6 to 1...nasty) I know that no matter how good you are, it’s just a matter of time before.!!!....more or less. One of the main guys I listen to has about 8000 jumps but isnt’ really current anymore. He loads his Jonathon 120 at 1.2 to 1 and, even being uncurrent, can make that thing talk just as good as any others jumpinx xaos, etc. at 2 to 1. From what I see, I’m not in a hurry to downsize. I know it takes time and practice and that small doesn’t mean better, fast, if you don’t have the experience. I’m glad I don’t have a 150. My 165 has so much to offer…at least another 200/300 jumps before I downsize. I have alsso worked two seasons as a packer so I think it helps to be around all the time instead of just being another weekend jumper. Sometimes I can picture myself hitting the ground the way the guy I saw did. Thaht doesn’t bother me so much because I know, sooner or later, my luck will run out. Either way, I’m gonna go ahead and keep doing what I’m doing. I know the risks and am willing to accept them because it sure does look cool. Especially to the whuffo first time jumpers that are watching. BUT, I think I know my limits (for the moment) and I’m still gonna always be learning the canopy’s limits. When I am coming in, I think I’m so safe cause I can see the ground and I know to flare before I hit (sarcasm). I just thought I’d throw that out there and see what others say about me, or just the thought in general. I welcome all opinions whether I disagree or not. This is my first post after reading for awhile so I know I owe the beer but y’all have to come to Ireland to collect! And the 2nd post I got my fire retardant blankie out so bring on the flaming. In my opinion, I reckon I’m safer on this 165 at 1.1.1 than being 20 pounds lighter and being on a 150 at 1.1.1. I don’t mean safe…just safer. I also have a kind of bet going on with skyhighkiy. It being that one of us is going to go in before the other. Not that I want either of us to bounce, but I know it’s gonna happen, it’s just about time. Being that I’m gonna do it anyway, who has advice for me to learn how to swoop with minimal risk? I keep being told (I assume, correctly) that if I have to stab out to avoid hitting the ground, I’m doing something dangerously wrong. I also don’t attempt this in unfavorable winds. IN fact, I hardly ever jump if there is wind. I prefer none at all. I think (waiting on corrections) that the faster you want to come in, the less wind. This makes for more ideal landings. Bob(the soon to be injured) Hey bob, if I said something that’s different than what you were trying to say, lemme know! BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #8 November 15, 2004 Well, to me it sounds like you shouldn't be doing 270's on a canopy that you only have 70 jumps on. And you say that you think you know your limits, but you told us about how your always having to stab it out and you said that you have had too many close calls. Sounds like you should back up to only doing 90's. When you think that your stabbing it out from being too low all the time, then you should seriously consider taking a step back. Im also thinking that you dont know your canopy quite as much as you might think. You also keep talking about how one day your goings to "bounce" from starting your front riser too low. I think you could really reduce that risk by taking things a lot slower. You said you either do a 90 or 270 depending on things. What happened to 180's? I would perfect 90's, perfect 180's, THEN, doin 270's. Well, hope you do things slower now and stop having those close calls you talked about. --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 November 15, 2004 Coming soon to an incident report near you!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisgr 0 #10 November 15, 2004 Do you smoke crack before you jump or just before you post? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #11 November 15, 2004 I sense a deleted post by moderators in your near future BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #12 November 15, 2004 Under the circumstances I consider that a legitimate question. I am tired of telling newbies that they need to get a grip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #13 November 16, 2004 Do people watching/assessing you think your having near death experiences? I know when I was racing motorcycles, I would make a change and come into a corner a lot faster than previous times and think OH SHIT!, but I'd make it through the turn and a few laps later realize I could still go faster... If people around you are warning you of impending doom, it would probably be wise to LISTEN. You have lots of time to learn unles you get seriously hurt or killed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvacher 0 #14 November 16, 2004 Hi Guys, This canopy course is now confirmed at the IPC with the dates of 4/5/6 March 2005. If you would like a pdf on the course content please PM me or send me a email at [email protected]. Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #15 November 17, 2004 Did Bob get the book? If not, can I throw in $20 on him? Might as well share the action with the rest of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repeter 0 #16 November 17, 2004 is there even a question in there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hullaman22 0 #17 November 29, 2004 BOB WHAT UP DOGG ITS ME YOUR AMERICAN FRIEND FROM CMS AND WELL I GUESS THAT WE ARE ALL...ahh found the caps key....using alliases these days all except Kiy but any way this is my email too so drop me a line dude [email protected] RyanRyan The Guy Who Steals your Girlfriend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
