Final Onyx Demo Review

[diveout 0]

After two weeks and approximately 15 jumps on the canopy here are my thoughts. I was flying a 105 loaded at 2.45.

I like the material, the design is interesting and easy to pack compared w/ other cross-braced designs. I sort of question the use of spectra for the lines.

The slider is too small (same width but 5" shorter front to back than the slider from a Velocity 90) which of course resulted in hard openings, I was able to extend the length of the snivel with packing, but when the slider starts to come down it screamed down the lines (other pilots have had softer openings on different canopies).

Factory brake setting using risers that the canopy came on was at least 5" too short. I was able to attach a temporary extra lower control line so I could fly it at an appropriate setting but send it back exactly as I got it.

Canopy has a very flat glide. Riser pressure is very light, but builds like most other canopies through a riser turn. It seemed very stable and responsive to all inputs, riser, harness, toggle.

I was starting a 270 deg left hand turn from about 600 feet (LOW for this wing loading). The canopy would dive well at first but recover at the bottom end fairly quickly, loosing much of it's speed in the process. Input with rear risers or toggles made the recovery very pronounced. This could be due to trim angle, line attachment location, or line length. The lines on the 105 were about .5" shorter overall than the lines on a crossfire 97.

The swoop seemed to be shorter than my usual canopy, a xaos21 125 loaded at 2.05, but then again I have about 800 jumps on the Xaos.

The design has potential, I would like to see a pilot who has one of these things dialed in fly it. I don't think the version that I got had noticeably better flight or landing characteristics than current designs.

[ManBird 0]

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The lines on the 105 were about .5" shorter overall than the lines on a crossfire 97.

I don't know enough about the intricacies of canopy manufacture, but that seems really dang short. Anywho, so it doesn't sound like the jump from 27 to 36 is very noticeable. My thinking was sort of that the overall planform is more critical than the number of crossbraces. A 72-cell square would doubtfully make a better canopy than a highly elliptical 21-cell (in terms of swooping).

I've noticed (not experienced, of course) that a lot of highly elliptical canopies are twitchy at high WL. Would you say that this one is significantly more stable than X-braced canopies at the same or lower WL? If so, that in itself may be unique quality. I'm sure we'll hear, "Finally! A cross-braced elliptical you can jump right off student status!" I hope not. It also sounds as though Atair has created a product that can at least compete with the highest performance canopies. I, too, am interested in seeing what people do with it after spending a lot of time and jumps on it.

Thanks for revealing a bit more of the mystery. Mystery and power. No, speed and power. Speed and power, Dan. Speed and power.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[diveout 0]

First of all the onyx cell design has LESS internal structure than a 27cell, not more. Looking at the cells next to a vx, the Onyx cell looks like:

(/ I \)

a tri-braced cell looks like:

(/I I\)

I would say it is no more twitcy, nor more or less stable feeling than other tri-cell designs. It has significantly less front fiser pressure, but I'd trade some of that for a longer dive.

[ManBird 0]

I'd trade a kick in the face for a sandwich, but that still doesn't cover my pants in gold.

I have NO idea what that means.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[ManBird 0]

Quote

a tri-braced cell looks like:

(/I I\)

Nice drawing. I added to it:

. _I_
/___\
(/I I\)
|_L_|
\_0_/
. | |

* drawing on here is hard

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Kimblair13 0]

hahaha...you kids are too funny

[skygod7777 0]

my impressions of the 95 that i had and the 85 that i had aren't quite what i expected them to be.

both have great glide.

openings are better than that 105 that you have, but kind of take off a bit when the slider starts to come down.

light front riser pressure.

rear riser pressure was light also, but didn't seam to have a lot of power.

dive, sucked ass to be blunt. if you do a really long carve then it will dive a bit, but the recovery arc sucks, and like you said, any input and it's flat.

i think the canopy could have good potential, maybe if they put a longer line set on it, or steepen the angle of attack (or both). so it can dive more, and build up more speed.


and the 36 cell thing is a gimic, they way they are calling it a 36 cell, makes a vx a 45 cell. because it only has 1 rib, so making 2 chambers for the cells, but then the chambers are split by the crossbraces, making 4 sections. so, call it what ever they want, but until they improve the performance, i'm sticking with my vx or a velo.

edit: btw, i don't believe for a second that the 105 that i had was a 105, i think it was a 95 like it was originaly marked. and the 2 that i have now still, one says 85 but they say it was miss marked and it's a 95, and the other one i have says 75 but it's got a mark thru it, and 85 wrote next to it. and when i laid the "95" on top of my buddy's 79 vx and it was just a hair bigger, i'm going to go ahead and say it was a 85.

so i'm not too impressed with atair in that aspect, considering they are sending out demo's that they don't know what size they are even, or they just tell you it's the size you want it to be.

later

[diveout 0]

I'll say this- If that thing was a 95, it has a huge amount of lift for a 2.7 or so wing loading.

It's totally possible that with minor changes it could be a competetive wing along side the xaos, velo, and icarus lines. I don't think the design is quite there yet.

Somebody who has an Onyx dialed in might be able to show otherwise- I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[diveout 0]

well, sound like there's another demo review out there- any others?

Quote

In last week-end I tried the Onyx 75. in spite having few jumps here it is my opinion:
Container: Racer
Pilot chute: ZP 24 "
Wind: null
Wing load: 2,36

Construction:
The canopy have a crossed panels (ribs) it is sewn along whole the cord of the top skin and bottom skin without any other vertical rib besides the normal vertical rib in the center cell.
The nose is open, with finishes in triangle and not partial closed like other cross-braced canopys
The platform have to AR 2,7/1 and real volume that I measured is 74,7 Sq ft
I heard that the onyx have a size short lines. Is not true the onyx have a line size similar to cobalt canopys.

Pack: standard propack, with center cell open, 4 out nose cells roll 1/2 turn for inside (not inside the center cell), quartered slider with lip close to the center cell. Well to center the nose and only 2 turns in tail.

I admit that am always a little distrustful as I jump a canopy cross-braced, but Onyx surprised me nicely. Soft opennings, some snivel that demands to drive the canopy in this phase. The bad final "kick in back" and front dive didn't happen, that is normal in some canopys cross-braced.
The opennings is soft like the coventional nine cell zp and the canopy is sensitive to harness inputs.

In flight: Very sensitive canopy
Glide Ratio steep.
Aggressive and a few oversteer in turns.
Very low pressure of front risers

Landing:
For swoop approaches I think is good option to 270 turn to up 600 feet high with it wing load Good swoop and flare very very long with big power bottom lift same with in the wind. With my wing load we can begin a 270 to 1000 feet
Although has an negative and long recovery arch, the canopy levels with a lot of easiness to the minimum input. For big swoop that the canopy need a lot of attention in the transition for the flare because if the input is violent we lost speed that necessary for a long flare.

In summary:
The manufacture and concept is the habitual great quality Atair, very good workmanship and top concept together with the ZP Gelvenor fabric that guarantee a top performance and long life for the Onyx.
I think that this canopy is in the continuation of the modern cross braced canopys and I think that has potential for to compete in the swoop competitions with any current cross braced canopy with top pilot
I am no swoop competitor. It is only my opinion

Roq

On a loosely related subject, -Guess who was jumping a production Onyx in competition at the Wildwood Swoop festival??? ...nobody. Makes you go hmm...

Have any of the big-timers spent any jumps under one of these? Got any further reviews for us?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The most accomplished, Pro-rated canopy pilot to spend any time at all under one was Eric Butts. I do not think he is flying one now though, but I may be mistaken. I know he was looking for another sponsor earlier this year.

Conversely, like I have mentioned before, Flight Concepts has actually made more than four "better" Onyx-like prototypes and they have been extensively jumped by both PST Pro Joe Bennet and canopy designer Howard Adams. I have been told that both of the last prototypes fly incredibly well and have a much longer recovery arc than the Atair version of this concept.

Chuck

[PhreeZone 14]

I believe Howard is now working at Jumpshack in their Firebolt project. I had a discussion with him last year at WFFC about the differences between the Firebolt and the Tandem design that FC is making now.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

True, Howard works as a test jumper and tandem examiner for Jumpshack, but he also does a lot of design/test jumping for Red and whoever else will pay him. His real job is as a high-rise building window caulker if you can believe that. Howard is the shiznit.

[diveout 0]

Hey Chuck-

any guess on when we'll see one of these canopies you refer to on the tour or advertised in parachutist for sale?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Joe Bennet very nearly jumped one at Wildwood instead of his Velo. Actually, the one he wanted to jump was still in the hands of Howard, who refuses to give it back to Red! Anyway, the canopy still has it's differences/limitations to to "other" braced mains, but it has tremendous lift. He even has a name for it, but I won't post it for fear of someone else snagging it and using it. If I recall correctly, that's exactly what happened to Brian Germain when he mentioned what he was going to call his crossbrace. PdF promptly took the name "Ninja" and slapped it on their braced canopy (which didn't get much ex
posure).

[roq 0]

Hi Chuck

" have been told that both of the last prototypes fly incredibly well and have a much longer recovery arc than the Atair version of this concept. "

I think that the actual Atair Onyx is different of first Atair Onyx canopys. I think the current Atair Onyx have more long recover arch, better openings and different trim that first versions.
However I didn't try the first canopys

Roq

[diveout 0]

The openings on the "105" (originally labeled as a 95) that I got went like this-

Pitch, normal line extension, center of the canopy inflates and snivels for approximately one full second, then the double diamonds come screaming open and you are hit in the head from above with a shovel.

I am a rigger and I did EVERYTHING conceivable to slow down the opening, all it did was make the initial snivel last for a second longer, not slow down the inflation.

I honestly believe, after seeing the canopy compared with others, that it had the lineset and slider (maybee the sliders are supposed to be the same size) from a 95. The lines were way shorter than all other comparable sq. footage canopies I could get my hands on to take a close look at line length.

After flying my Xaos in competition at such a lower wing loading- directly after flying the onyx. I think my Xaos dove for miles longer and had about 25% longer swoop distance, coming in with less initial speed.

[DancingFlame 0]

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PdF promptly took the name "Ninja" and slapped it on their braced canopy (which didn't get much ex
posure).

Heh, there is a Russian braced canopy Warrior (made by ParaAvis). Recent swoop competition showed that Warrior can outswoop all other canopies... including Xaos. Well, it was the pilot who outswoop others, but Warrior, I think, one of the best swoop machines in the world.

[cliffharris 0]

that's quite a handle ya got there fella. Zey call me Za Dancingflame!!! Kickhis ass Seabass!!!! ha. i can't help it, it makes me laugh. Doesn't really translate i reckon. yeah. anyway, id like to fly that swoop machine and the Rage too. maybe there's some innovative stuff coming out of Europe?

[roq 0]

"I honestly believe, after seeing the canopy compared with others, that it had the lineset and slider (maybee the sliders are supposed to be the same size) from a 95. The lines were way shorter than all other comparable sq. footage canopies I could get my hands on to take a close look at line length."


Like You know, for to compare the line length of two canopys you should compare the span and not the area. Two wings can have the same area and a different span.
Have a wings with same area and different span that can have a different length of the lines.
And have canopys with same labeled area but different real area.
The length of the lines when compared should be proportional to the span of the wing

"After flying my Xaos in competition at such a lower wing loading- directly after flying the onyx. I think my Xaos dove for miles longer and had about 25% longer swoop distance, coming in with less initial speed."

Any wing can make a big or small swoop consonant the hands of the pilot. Thus, until an old stilleto, when driven well can go far away than a modern cross-braced canopys with inexperienced pilot.
For you can compare the Onyx with Xaos you need a similar wing load, similar conditions and similar experience with both canopys

Roq

[diveout 0]

as far as the span, the lines were still shorter than x braced canopies with a much shorter span- specifically a velocity 96 and a crossfire 99.

no two ways about it- they had shorter span AND much longer lines.

Atair doesn't have any pilots to my knowledge who are flying this thing competitively. As long as they've been marketing this thing, a sponsored professional swooper (especially if it's a better design) should be right up there in the top 20 among the PRO's.

If the design is truly better, people would switch canopies. Not one person has given up their velocity/ VX/ XAOS -to my knowlege, and gone to the ONYX as a competition wing. That's not just coincidence, it's for a reason. It's because in the current version it can't hang.

[skygod7777 0]

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Heh, there is a Russian braced canopy Warrior (made by ParaAvis). Recent swoop competition showed that Warrior can outswoop all other canopies... including Xaos. Well, it was the pilot who outswoop others, but Warrior, I think, one of the best swoop machines in the world.

does paraavis have a web site to get more info on this canopy?


edit: ok, i found a web site, but the one that has canopies and stuff on it is in russian, while the english site doesn't have much of anything on it about parachutes, just thier base rig.

thanks

[roq 0]

You know that the only PD, PA and Icarus have a sponsored professional swoopers, that only them win. Like I know Atair have no sponsored swoopers.

Roq

[PhreeZone 14]

They have 2 or 3 sponsored jumpers on these fourms. Ramon and Brian Moffit jump to mind.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[roq 0]

I think they have no same conditions of the PD, PA and Icarus swoopers.

Roq

[skygod7777 0]

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I think they have no same conditions of the PD, PA and Icarus swoopers.

what do you mean? same amount of skill?? i'm not sure, i've never seen the atair sponsered guys swoop, but i'm assuming if they're sponsered for swooping they must be pretty good.

later